At 06:00 PM 7/31/05 -0400, Darcy James Argue wrote: >On 31 Jul 2005, at 5:21 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: > >> I have been reading along, and there are a few points I want to be >> sure I >> understand. This is what I *think* I've learned so far... > >Dennis, everything you wrote below is incorrect. Every single thing.
Then I simply don't understand this entire deal. I did not get GPO with Finale 2005, but it is apparently not an option on Finale 2006, which looks like it's being optimized to use it. So, from what's been said, it has to be dealt with in some way -- there's no getting out of the fact of its presence, and that the expectation (already building here) is that the new GPO/Kontakt playback system will be the 'default' method of operation in the future. I'm not trying to be difficult, only decide whether to skip 2006 until they open it up. It's sounding pretty closed. Apparently it wasn't clear (to me or you!) -- my questions all are with respect to the new playback system, the GPO/Kontakt new playback system. >> 1. If I bring my templates forward into Finale 2006, then they will not >> take advantage of the new playback system without completely reworking >> them >> with a new expression set. My present set of over 1,000 expressions in >> different fonts and languages and shapes will no longer function. Or I >> must >> use the Finale templates as is. > >No, not at all. > >If your expression is one that HP recognizes and it is *not* already >defined for playback, it will interpret it. > >If your expression is one that HP recognizes and it *is* already >defined for playback, it will interpret it *if* Human Playback is set >to "Incorporate Data" for that type of MIDI data (i.e., continuous >data, velocity, etc). > >[The BIG EXCEPTION to the above is keyswitching expressions used in >conjunction with GPO playback. But you only need to worry about this >if you are: > > a) an existing GPO customer who used keyswitching expressions in >earlier versions of Finale > b) trying to use the stupid non-HP keyswitching expressions included >in the Finale 2006 default file. > >But neither of those scenarios apply to you, AFAIK.] So I cannot bring my templates forward without modification, because all expressions with a playback meaning have been defined for playback (including patch changes where appropriate). It still sounds like an either/or. [And there was something about Maestro being required, which is not the case in all my scores.] >> 2. There is no plugin to apply the new playback system to existing >> templates. > >I don't know what you mean here. There is an "Apply Human Playback" >plugin that works fine. > >But I don't think that's what you were talking about. I think you were >talking about score setup using the Setup Wizard. If you use the Setup >Wizard, Finale automatically selects the appropriate GPO Finale Edition >instruments and loads them into your AU/VST setup. > >If you don't want to use the setup wizard, you can manually load the >appropriate instruments into your AU/VST setup. Something simple. A plugin that runs and updates every expression, staff name, etc., that the new playback system recognizes (which you are also calling Human Playback, even though somewhere in the discussion Human Playback has to be turned off to use the new playback system). I have produced demos of hundreds of my scores. If the new GPO/Kontakt playback system has advantages and ***will be open for expansion from the user's own libraries*** (which doesn't sound like the case) and ***will output studio suite-compatible Midi*** (as well as its own internal noisemaking stuff), then I'm interested in re-examining those earlier demos. But I do ***not*** want to be locked into a Finale product that is (as someone said) in bed with the NI/GPO guys. I want ***more*** options, now fewer. Everything you've described so far sounds specifically organized to ***remain within the Finale product***. That is why I am asking these questions, and that main question has not yet been made clear. I expect to be able to transport whatever this new playback system offers out to proper studio software, and not be locked into Finale's unending continually difficult organization. Once the score is done and I've got a good playback file (all the controllers, bank switches, etc.) complete, I want to be able to use it in real studio software, and not dink around with the debilitated sample-playback system that has been described so far. >> 3. The new playback system is incompatible with other currently >> supported >> playback systems, including its own human playback system, and the only >> VTSi it supports comes bundled with it (i.e., Virtual Sampler, Live >> Synth >> Pro, etc., are not supported). That is, the new playback system has >> disabled standard VSTi features of the operating environment. > >Again, no. What? Didn't a whole chunk of this discussion just revolve around the new playback system (GPO/Kontakt) killing other VSTi usage at the same time? >> 4. The original Human Playback system is now either superseded by or >> incompatible with the new playback system, which has its own Human >> Playback >> system. To optimize a score for both methods (i.e., to take full >> advantage >> of the different methods without compromising either one, and being >> able to >> save material for use in an external studio suite), two different >> scores >> must be created. > >Kindly excuse my language, but for the f***ing twentieth time today, NO >-- THIS IS NOT TRUE. >From what's been said, and from what you yourself said, there are expressions for the new GPO/Kontakt requires, and that system doesn't output proper Midi. The Human Playback plugin allows the score to output a the controller-based Midi (which in 2K5 can be carried into studio software), and then there's the regular Midi output that I send to studio software that use a own playback expressions to control the Midi. Are you saying the same expression has multiple definitions, depending on which system is used? Then how does that jibe with your sentence above, "If your expression is one that HP recognizes and it is *not* already defined for playback, it will interpret it"? Does that mean that it will interpret *my* definition correctly, and anything undefined by me, it will interpret? Mix and match? >> 6. The new system no longer outputs Midi and patch switches for use in >> an >> external studio suite such as Sonar, except for the old Midi save-as >> and >> the superseded Human Playback plugin save-as. > >No. No what? The new playback system (GPO/Kontakt) *does* output standard Midi? Wasn't Michael Good's whole MusicXML argument based on the fact that it doesn't? >> 7. The new playback system is incomplete as shipped, missing many >> standard >> instruments, but will not load existing sample sets (such as Yamaha or >> Soundfont) and does not come with a conversion utility or sample >> builder. >> The only option for expanding the new playback system is to purchase >> more >> software. > >No. No what? It's already been admitted it doesn't come with saxes, etc. But somewhere else it was said that samples can't be added to the new GPO/Kontakt player. Either *does* come with a Soundfont/Yamaha/wav/aiff converter, it plays Soundfonts directly, or it doesn't use them. Since you wrote in a previous message, "I don't know about "90%" but those instruments were simply not available at shipping time. They will be included in the upcoming GPO Jazz/Big Band edition, which you can preorder on MakeMusic's website." That sounds like purchasing more software to me. I want to be able to move score output back and forth. Finale is missing massive compositional tools, so it is unacceptable to be locked into their framework. That's why I'm asking these questions. Dennis _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
