Absolutely, write what is clearest and most easily understood. If bass clef for your tenors is that, fine.
But saying "All male voice parts should be written in bass clef, no exception" is another matter. Interesting to see real examples of how jazz trombonists never embraced clefs other than bass in solo transcriptions recently posted on youtube. All bass clef, frequently switching to 8va marks for upper register. The first example goes to bass clef plus 5 ledger line, marked 8va! http://youtu.be/pap8NHnArEA http://youtu.be/t_L11SOaURo http://youtu.be/rxxXRwTFc1c One could easily make sweeping statements about what would be preferable clef usage in these, or indeed all first trombone parts in commercial charts, but this is the tradition. Put one of these in a seemingly much more practical alto clef, or bass switching to treble (like trombone parts in many newer serious works) and trouble will ensue. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Dean M. Estabrook <d.e...@comcast.net> wrote: > I agree with you Raymond .... we ought to be able to play what's > written, but when I'm writing stuff for any groups to which I have > access, I best take GREAT care about ranges, clefs, etc.,, or it > just don't get read ... good practice anyway ... > > Dean > > On Sep 16, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: > >> Well, it IS standardized, Patrick - you just don't like the >> standards. And, >> if you circulated your petitions, sent them to all the major >> publishers and >> got them to change - just who is going to re-engrave all of the >> millions of >> works that have been notated already, in clefs you don't like? >> >> Go back to my example of trombonists for a second. I mentioned >> the Shostakovitch 5th symphony, I believe. As I recall, the 2nd >> trombone >> part is in alto clef throughout, with leger lines below to low Ab >> and G. >> For ONE WHOLE NOTE low F in the first movement, the part switches >> to bass >> clef! Ridiculous! Take a poll on that one and bass clef would win >> (if you >> include amateur trombonists in your poll, alto clef would lose in >> every >> case, no matter what the range). The next week we may play the same >> composers 10th, in which the parts are quite high and all written >> in bass >> clef - absurd! But it's part of being a musician - we read it >> because it's >> our job. >> >> Musicians have to read the music that is there. Composers and >> arrangers can >> write what ever they want, but if you write for established >> publishers, you >> write to their standards. If you publish yourself - use whatever >> clefs you >> want, sell to whomever buys, have a grand old time. If you sell >> more than >> the big publishers, then maybe they will change, and then others >> can start >> complaining. >> >> Raymond Horton >> Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >> Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >> Composer, Arranger >> VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 12:18 PM, Patrick Sheehan < >> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Thank you all for the historical practices and experience on what >>> you've >>> used and seen. >>> >>> To clarify, I do not have a problem in reading the Treble8 clef >>> for tenors, >>> I simply find it impractical. >>> News flash: We all have to deal with reading multiple ledger lines >>> (pianists, flutists, violinists). Don't complain about ledger >>> lines; learn >>> to read them and be comfortable! We don't have a staff that has >>> 10 lines, >>> only 5. >>> >>> >>> >>> Someone mentioned that the Treble8 clef for tenors much like a >>> transposing >>> instrument. Correct! In this sense, the tenors are reading >>> treble clef >>> notes but what's coming out of their throat is an octave lower, >>> plus they >>> have to think that way too. What sense does that make?! >>> >>> Some people have said the bass clef for tenors is not used because of >>> ledger >>> lines. Well, what fixes that? Scrupulous layout (in Finale, >>> etc.), and >>> stems in both directions. I'm also tired of seeing joined stems >>> for tenor >>> and bass parts (if the rhythm is the same). No matter who you >>> are, it >>> keeps >>> each voice part on track if they can focus on notehead-stem-lyric >>> for their >>> own part. But, I could go on and on about practicality. There >>> are several >>> other notational concepts that I despise, but I'd keep you here >>> until the >>> apocalypse. >>> >>> It boils down to this - I just wish everything was standardized: >>> just a >>> two-stave hymnbook-style choral score with constant stems up >>> (soprano & >>> tenor) and stems down (alto and bass), with or without the piano >>> part as a >>> reduction (if its an a cappella work). If the parts are more >>> polyrhythmic >>> and need to be separated on their own individual staves, then it >>> should be >>> printed that way (with tenors printed in bass clef, of course). >>> Think >>> about >>> it: Most tenor parts (of TODAY, not centuries ago), only go up to >>> F4, G4, >>> A4 at the most, so that's only three ledger lines, not seven. I >>> think >>> that's doable. >>> >>> >>> >>> Imagine if cars were made where some had standard the foot pedals, >>> but then >>> some other types of cars had the accelerator on the left, the >>> clutch in the >>> middle, and the brake on the right. Imagine the brain-crash you'd >>> have in >>> trying to drive that car. That's how I feel with the damn Treble8 >>> clef. >>> It's not a matter of "getting used to it" as someone had stated. >>> I AM used >>> to it, I just hate it. >>> >>> >>> All male voice parts should be written in bass clef, no >>> exception. This >>> tells you the differentiation between female and male parts at >>> first sight >>> (and eventually, all "sights."). If the tenor part ventures high, >>> and >>> stays >>> there for awhile, then publishers should be a little more >>> cognizant in >>> their >>> layout in using the bass clef and ledger lines. They have >>> ultimate control >>> over that, and it's simply done (being a copyist and in-demand >>> arranger for >>> over 10 years). The fact is: I've taken a poll with all male >>> vocalists and >>> asked them what they would prefer to always see, and they prefer >>> bass clef; >>> they say that treble is confusing and it messes with their eye's >>> ear. The >>> same goes for adults. I think that where things are getting lost and >>> mis-practiced are with publishers, which is why I don't go through >>> publishers. Their editors wreak havoc on an original layout / >>> work. It's >>> a >>> harsh truth, but it's the truth nonetheless. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Patrick J. M. Sheehan >>> Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy >>> >>> P. S. Music >>> >>> <mailto:patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com> patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
