Dear Emanuel,

The two types are sometimes also called "Shannon-type" versus "Bateson-type" information.

In Chinese, there are two words for "information".

Both words contain two char­acters as depicted in Figure 13.1. The above one, ‘sjin sji’, corresponds to the mathe­matical definition of informa­tion as uncertainty.[1] <#_ftn1> The sec­ond, ‘tsjin bao,’ means infor­mation but also intelligence.[2] <#_ftn2> In other words, it means infor­mation which informs us, and which is thus considered meaningful.

<#_ftnref1> [1] ‘sjin’ means letter of reliability, and ‘sji’ means message.

<#_ftnref2> [2] ‘tsjin’ means situation or status, and ‘bao’ means report.

Wu Yishan (personal communication)

From: Leydesdorff, L. (1995). The Challenge of Scientometrics: The development, measurement, and self-organization of scientific communications. Leiden: DSWO Press, Leiden University; at, p. 295.


Loet Leydesdorff

Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR) <>; Associate Faculty, SPRU, <>University of Sussex;

Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <>, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, <>Beijing;

Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <>, University of London;

------ Original Message ------
From: "Emanuel Diamant" <>
Sent: 1/12/2018 5:20:14 PM
Subject: [Fis] I salute to Sungchul

Dear FISers,

I would like to express my pleasure with the current state of our discourse – an evident attempt to reach a more common understanding about information issues and to enrich preliminary given assessments.

In this regard, I would like to add my comment to Sungchul’s post of January 12, 2018.

Sungchul proposes “to recognize two distinct types of information which, for the lack of better terms, may be referred to as the "meaningless information" or I(-) and "meaningful information" or I(+)”.

That is exactly what I am trying to put forward for years, albeit under more historically rooted names: Physical and Semantic information [1]. Never mind, what is crucially important here is that the duality of information becomes publicly recognized and accepted by FIS community.

I salute to Sungchul’s suggestion!

Best regards, Emanuel.

[1] Emanuel Diamant, The brain is processing information, not data. Does anybody care?, ISIS Summit Vienna 2015, Extended Abstract.

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