Matt Chotin is away this week and has moved from development to product management and therefore must now choose his words carefully. I'm still in development so maybe I can get away with more.
Robert, I don't think we've met, and I haven't gone back to see your past history with Flex, but I would like to ask you to think twice about the way you are trying to get your message across before hitting send. Sending high priority messages, and maybe not having all of your facts straight, discredits your message and invites others to get mad or poke fun or both. I believe your message is that Adobe also sells solutions via Scene7 and Adobe Consulting and could purposefully or accidentally end up competing with independents like yourself, and that there are alternatives to Flex such as OpenLaszlo and Silverlight and Quicktime. That part of your message is not really debatable. I've worked for Lotus and IBM in my past and they also both sold development tools and had solutions teams and there is a fine line they have to walk. Occasionally, they stepped on one of their independents. It is unfortunate that you've been burned in the past, and you and others should definitely keep on the lookout for competition whether from Adobe or other independents. However, the call to arms to have everyone attend a webinar did not warrant "red alert" status. Yellow maybe. And based on your past, I'm surprised you would place so much weight on what you would hear in a webinar or in any public statement by Adobe. This is a fast moving marketplace and Adobe can change its mind right after talking to you. You'll always have to read the tea leaves and be ready to change course yourself. Finally, this forum is not an Adobe forum. There are non-Adobe moderators. As far as I'm concerned, you can get on your soapbox anytime you want, but if you want to reach a wide audience, fire and brimstone may not be the best approach. If you just want to vent, please warn us up front. And when you get on your soapbox, sometimes you just have a clever comeback line or just ignore the hecklers, including me. Yelling back at them is a waste of your energy. Take the high road, choose your technologies, remain nimble and good luck to you. -Alex From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Thompson Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 3:50 PM To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Cc: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [flexcoders] OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime, and also DHTML and W3C If you would just read your own comments you'd realize I'm posting objectively and angering just the few of you. I'm thankful to the posters the other day who said, essentially, if you're not interested don't read it. If your thankful to get some information to get to the root of the matter, look into it. I spent $1,777 on FLEX 3.0 with ILOG Elixr, and a lot more on Master Suite. So don't tell me I don't have the right to question the money I've spent and the time invested, and cut my losses, and simply make others aware that there is a "War of the RIAs going on" and if you care to look into it, here's an article on it, http://counternotions.com/2007/11/15/apple-runtime-answer-2/ I have asked questions about coding. But I'm also looking for the stability of the platform. I pushed very hard from someone to step up and create an OpenGL framework, and although I'm sure there are others, I was one of them, rooting for Adobe, and Macromedia developers like Matt Chotin and a few others appreciated it. Most of these responses are just anger letting out....it's the nature of the game when posting a controversial warning about the coding your doing and it's value 2 years from now when nearly everything can be done (I estimate 80% of what is commonly done in eCommerce, will be done using Scene7.com, not a FLEX developer earning a living). Fyi, I made no claim that OpenLaszlo.org is a new effort, it's in version 4, but what is happening in version 4i is newer. Throw the chip on your shoulder at someone else; I'm trying to warn some of those out there that may blindly make the same mistakes I made in my 20's by blindly trusting Microsoft and believing being chosen for an event to showcase my product was a good thing, an endorsement. It wasn't. It was a precursor for a patent. Try to take the emotions out of this with the words like "Crap" and such. -r On Friday, August 29, 2008, at 03:01PM, "Michael Schmalle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:teoti.graphix%40gmail.com>> wrote: >Doug, > >I take your hand and walk through fiery hell in hopes the Mr. Person might >be exorcised. > >Mike > >On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:59 PM, Doug McCune <[EMAIL >PROTECTED]<mailto:doug%40dougmccune.com>> wrote: > >> God forgive me, for I have sinned. I am responding to a thread I know >> I absolutely should not have replied to. Sorry for encouraging the >> ranting, I just couldn't not reply when this amazing email came into >> my inbox. Robert, I'll address each paragraph one at a time and tell >> you exactly why this message, as well as the ones you have been >> sending in the last day or so, are in fact complete spam and worthy of >> the comments you have received. >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Robert Thompson <[EMAIL >> PROTECTED]<mailto:plasmaphonic%40mac.com><plasmaphonic%40mac.com>> >> wrote: >> > >> > OpenLaszlo.org supports Flex, Flash, Silverlight, AJAX, soon Quicktime >> >> Simply incorrect. OpenLaszlo has been around for years and has always >> targeted both the Flash runtime and AJAX. That's what it does and >> that's what it has always done. You write an app and you can target >> Flash or DHTML. There it no support for Silverlight, there is no >> "support" for Flex (what woudl that even mean?), I don't know what you >> are suggesting when you claim they "support" Quicktime but that >> doesn't even make sense. If you are going to make wild claims please >> back them up with references so we can verify. I also want to point >> out that this sentence and only one other short sentence later in this >> message (also completely factually incorrect) are the only two parts >> of this email that have anything at all to do with the subject of this >> thread. >> >> > First of all to the gentlemen suggesting I'm slamming the list. I am not >> and I take offense at that. Don't accuse me when I am responding to someone >> else. I posted only 2 original posts and they were in the best interest of >> the [flexcoders] community, some agreed, some did not. Do not accuse me of >> spamming unless you are from Adobe and moderating this list. >> >> This has nothing to do with the topic you posted. If you have a gripe >> about someone's reply then reply to that. By creating a new thread and >> filling it with completely unrelated paragraphs like this you are in >> fact spamming the list. >> >> > Second of all, I've been continuing to research this, and have a simple >> answer to the "Runtime Wars" that are very real and goign on and are a part >> of the acquisition of Scene7 which DIRECTLY RELATES TO FLEXCODERS. Don't >> question, Mr. Person who accuses me of spamming, my motives when I'm trying >> to get to the bottom of this. >> >> Completely unrelated to the subject you posted. >> >> > Thirdly, OpenLazlo.org has also scene the shifting going on in the >> industry between Silverlight and Flex/Swf, Quicktime SDK, and others and has >> begun and open source solution. So there you have it. Do not accuse me and >> get aggressive without doing your own research. >> >> Again, OpenLazlo has been around for years, I assume most people on >> this list know about it. And even if not this post does not provide >> any new information whatsoever, and instead only provides misleading >> and factual incorrect information. >> >> > I'm in this to better our investments in time and money (for those who >> care about it). If you continue to defame me with an accusation of Spamming >> you better back it up with an Original Posting by me that is off topic. I am >> not Spamming, and if you feel I have, show me, and If it's true I will stop >> it. But I intend to get to the bottom of this legally or otherwise. >> >> Fine, cheers, have fun. But this post does not have any information >> regarding the topic you posted, so please keep the personal monologues >> under wraps unless you are talking about something. You want an >> original posting that is off-topic? THIS ONE. >> >> > EVERYONE BE AN INDIVIDUAL: Don't let anyone sucker you into thinking for >> you. Do your own research and look to OpenLaszlo.org which appears to be a >> noble effort recognizing the struggles going on in Adobe with the >> resignation of the CEO last Fall. >> >> Again, OpenLazlo is not new. It has nothing to do with the Adobe CEO >> at all. Do your own research before spamming with incorrect >> information please. >> >> > [flexcoders] should be aware that they have multiple options and One >> blasted person trying to tape my mouth shut by claiming I'm spamming had >> better be from Adobe and not just another developer trying to cut-down free >> speech that IS ON TOPIC WITH THE FUTURE of our Investment in Time and Money. >> Do any of us want to waste 4 years only to find out it was for not? >> >> I don't think anyone is denying there are multiple options, we're just >> saying that you going off on long rants without any information of >> substance is getting annoying. >> >> > If you claim I'm spamming the list by providing a URL, my URL earlier >> posted was so I could present the research I'm doing w/o posting to this >> group and offending people like you who just get in the way. >> >> No, we're claiming you're spamming the list by messages exactly like these. >> >> > I like the earlier posting of the individual lady who said, let it live, >> or feed it. The comments thereafter were uneeded and more contrary to the >> policies of polite procedure of this group than trying to inform. others. >> I've been there, I've been screwed by a large company who did a very similar >> thing that is happening now; so if you don't want to listen, skip the >> posting and stop accusing me. >> >> God, I really wanted to skip it, I just couldn't... it's a weakness of >> mine, I have a hard time letting ridiculousness pass by without >> calling it out. You, my friend, are being ridiculous. >> >> > > > >-- >Teoti Graphix, LLC >http://www.teotigraphix.com > >Teoti Graphix Blog >http://www.blog.teotigraphix.com > >You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'. >
