Coincidence?<http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1910204/tackling-open-sources-gender-issues>
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Dennis K <[email protected]> wrote: > On 01/17/2012 10:20 AM, Ben Finney wrote: > > Brianna Laugher > > <[email protected]> writes: > > > >> This comic about global warming has a person presenting at a 'Climate > >> Summit' conference with a list of all the benefits to the earth and > >> society of moving to green energy. A person in the audience stands up > >> and says, "What if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for > >> nothing?" > > > > Yes. The blank slate is (as Stephen Pinker details in his excellent book > > of that name) a myth long discredited. But the motivation for making our > > community more welcoming of valuable members is not undermined by that. > > > > It doesn't change anything, though it does mean that we don't have to > beat ourselves up if the free decisions that other people make don't > meet the expectations that the 'blank slate' hypothesis would predict. > > It's interesting to note how a book like Pinkers doesn't raise an > eyebrow now. 40 years ago, he would have been hauled over the coals for > that. > > > > >> Dennis made a very interesting point: > >> > >> "We base the standard on male behaviour, because that's what > >> progressivism has defined as the goal. But to do this, is to assume > >> that the men know better. It is to assume that if women behave > >> differently, then it is the woman's behaviour we need to alter." > >> > >> (I don't know what you exactly mean by progressivism, but with > >> s/progressivism/patriarchy I agree. :)) > > > > That surprised me, too. I don't know whose definition of “progressivism” > > Dennis has accepted, but it isn't one I subscribe to. > > > > >> Basically, traits associated with men tend to be lauded, and traits > >> associated with women tend to be trivialised and dismissed. > > > > This is true even when men are genuinely well-intentioned and supportive > > of the ideals of sexual equality. Matt Guica has perceived an accusatory > > tone; I want to be clear that these phenomena are going on *even though* > > most men don't want it to happen. > > > > No accusation of deliberate malice is necessary to these arguments, and > > I hope you can see that is not occurring in this thread, Matt. > > > > It can be very difficult for men to even acknowledge that this sexism > > happens in our own communities. Even once acknowledged, men can have > > difficulty from our position to perceive it as it happens. > > > > So even a well-intentioned man can face an uncomfortable ongoing > > situation when he realises the sexist practices that he tacitly > > supports, and even participates in, through not perceiving them as > > sexist or through ignorance of their effects. > > > > I count myself among that number. It's still difficult to perceive the > > background sexism, difficult to change habits, difficult not to feel > > ham-fisted when doing so, and difficult to resist the strong urge to > > self-justify my way to the path of least resistance. > > > > It's natural to feel defensive and to hear an accusatory tone in > > descriptions of this. Natural, and regrettable: please try to see past > > that. > > > >> Feminism acknowledges that this bind is bad for both men and women. > >> The restrictive sterotypes harm both men and women. Men face a huge > >> amount of social pressure not to embrace things associated with women. > > > > Men and women also are fully equipped with a broad array of > > justification and minimisation tactics when the subject is raised for > > examination. > > > >> I agree that the focus on 50/50 or any other particular ratio is not > >> super helpful. We will know when it is enough when women in X groups > >> fall apart due to lack of interest. > > > > That took me a few read-throughs to parse. I think you mean “We will > > know we have succeeded when groups named “Women in X” fall apart due to > > lack of interest”. > > > >> Please don't interpret this as a suggestion to quiz her about > >> specifics of precisely what she had in mind. Being expected to be a > >> bearer of all wisdom on the problem of women in free software is, > >> well, yet another reminder that there are few others to ask! Many > >> points in the HOWTO point this out. > > > > Those of us advocating software freedom should empathise with that > > position more, since we are frequently in an analogous position: > > > > We are frequently in the position of pointing out the injustice of > > non-free software to those who have never even considered the issue. The > > person we speak to has so long been immersed in a culture that accepts > > the injustice of vendor lock-in and user helplessness that they have > > trouble even perceiving that it occurs, or have trouble acknowledging > > the problem, or have trouble seeing the hollowness of justifications for > > the status quo. > > > > When those people trot out the same old discredited arguments – “you > > just want to avoid paying for anything”, “if it were really a problem > > why is it so popular”, “but I just want to get things done, why are you > > hassling me”, and hundreds of others – we can see that they are being > > defensive, even though they may not see that (and likely won't react > > well if we point it out). > > > > It's unreasonable to expect the messenger – the person pointing out the > > injustice – to be a one-person repository of all information and perfect > > rhetorical rebuttal to all attacks on the position. We know that for > > software freedom; please, let's be aware of it for feminism in our > > community. > > > >> I'm at LCA this week and if you would like to discuss this in person > >> please feel free to approach me and say hi. Ben Sturmfels knows who I > >> am so ask him if you're not sure :) > > > > I'll re-iterate my plea: find women willing to join us at our meeting on > > Thursday 2012-02-16 to discuss this. It would be wonderful for women to > > outnumber men, and for us to be awash in testimony that yes, this is > > really a problem in our community even though we men might have trouble > > seeing it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Free-software-melb mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.softwarefreedom.com.au/mailman/listinfo/free-software-melb >
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