Hello,

No problem :) I wouldn't say I know lots, but at least some basics.
Basically my point is that unless the disc format is such that a PC
DVD drive's optics cannot pickup the data from the disc, I don't think
it's a too far-fetched idea that it could be read with a PC DVD drive
(with a modified firmware).

On the topic of DVD drives, is there any more info on the Xbox DVD
drive? Is there a comparable PC version of the drive available as
there was for the original Xbox?

On 28/11/05, Darren Coles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry, I just assumed you didn't know anything about the low level disc
> formats. I think most people just think that the data in a raw disc image
> (for example) just get written straight to the disc as pits and troughs
> translated from the 0's and 1's.
>
> I'm not too hot on the differences between CD and DVD formats at that level
> but I presume they are pretty much the same.
>
> In my message, I was referring to formats that are 'uncopyable' rather than
> 'unripable'.
>
> If you don't want the disc to be able to be read on a pc, then it could be
> done by having multiple sessions, where the first session is closed and the
> second session starts at a specific offset into the disc. I think the
> dreamcast did something along these lines in addition to the second session
> being higher density than a normal cd.
>
> Basically the same as the TOC thing, but without a firmware change the
> normal cd/dvd drive probably wouldn't be able to find the second session.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of smo
> Sent: 28 November 2005 17:45
> To: free60-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Free60-Devel] Re: Game DVD formats
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm aware of basics of CD format (apparently DVD is a lot alike
> though?) and I didn't imply the format was a simple thing. At least
> part of the disc is standard DVD, since it can be read on a PC as
> DVD-video. The DVD drive in both Xboxes is supposed to be a pretty
> standard DVD-drive with some Xbox specific things (and by that I mean
> the difference is in the firmware, not in the optics, correct?).
>
> Looks like weak sectors are used by SafeDisc protection on PC and they
> seem to have no problem ripping those...
>
> On 28/11/05, Darren Coles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > At the lowest level, CD and DVD formats are a lot more complicated than
> you
> > might think. Its not just a case of writing the 0's and 1's from the data
> > you want to store onto disc.
> >
> > Theres several layers of error correction and the fact that the data has
> > To be encoded in such a way that it can be read back reliably.
> >
> > If you want to know more, try googling for EFM (eight fourteen modulation)
> > and 'Weak sectors'
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of smo
> > Sent: 28 November 2005 17:02
> > To: free60-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: [Free60-Devel] Re: Game DVD formats
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > My messages sounded a lot like it was about game piracy. My apologies,
> > it definately
> > wasn't about that - I'm more interested in how the security functions
> > from end-to-end.
> >
> > On 28/11/05, smo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > What's so special about current game console DVD formats that render
> > > them uncopyable on a PC? They do contain somewhat standard DVD
> > > characteristics,
> > > don't they?
> > >
> > > I've tried researching this topic and all I came up was vague
> > > suggestions about the discs having a fake TOC and a proper TOC on a
> > > second layer. If I were to make a bit-for-bit copy of a game DVD (say
> > > if a PC DVD drive could do that), how would the console tell it apart
> > > from an original disc?
> > >
> > > -smo
> > >
> >
> >
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