I wonder how the Study Group would feel about nuclear reactors, however small, near the intersection of St Michaels and Cerrillos.
----------------------------------- Frank Wimberly My memoir: https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly My scientific publications: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2 Phone (505) 670-9918 On Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 5:53 AM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: > Eric, > > How about establishing a Galactic Library? > > Inspiration comes from a myriad of science fiction novels. > > Would subsume Wikipedia, the WWW, Project Gutenberg and Google's book > digitization project, all the knowledge bases currently behind pay walls. > the government document storage center currently in Pueblo Colorado, etc. > etc. > > Would employ the best and brightest from library and information science, > knowledge visualization, cognitive theorists, etc. etc. — not to mention > knowledge creators like artists and authors. > > Knowledge rescue missions led by anthropologists would recover languages, > folk knowledge, etc that has not been recorded and will be lost. > > Local universities might specialize in producing people capable of new > disciplines of ordinology and synthesis, polymaths, and reference > librarians. > > You could include computer folk, if and only if, they took some kind of > "Engelbart Pledge" that their work would enhance and augment human > abilities instead of demeaning/replacing them. > > Biggest obstacle would be power. Highly probably that it would have to > come from nuclear -—maybe those refrigerator size reactors that a company > in Albuquerque and Oregon have been working on. > > Entirely new ways of thinking about knowledge and wisdom would need to be > developed. (The computer science notions of data, databases, and > information must be discarded as harmful.) > > Could incorporate myriad Bohm Dialogues.. > > Could be a massive source of innovative ideas for development outside the > Library. > > davew > > > On Tue, Jan 14, 2020, at 10:03 PM, David Eric Smith wrote: > > I think I have been influenced on preferred frames for this question by > > two sources in particular. > > > > One was the writing Krugman did in the 1970s-90s on economic geography, > > which translating into my own current language is very much a > > perspective of institutional ecology with an emphasis on critical mass > > effects and what have become popular to call tipping points. If you > > don’t have something like a protected bay, a waterway, or other > > geographic feature to nucleate a distributed growth dynamic, critical > > mass is often achieved by the actions of large atomic (in the sense of > > indivisible, not meaning related to nuclear physics) actors, who can > > act on large scale in inidivual moves. The examples he always trotted > > out at the beginnings of essays were Burlington NC for textiles, or > > coastal Washington for aircraft (we’ll see how long that persists given > > current management, but for the last half of the previous century…) > > > > The second source came through Martin Shubik, and was the work of the > > Swedish development economist Gunnar Eliasson. Eliasson’s work was > > specifically on the long-term design and strategy problem of where a > > government would allocate resources if it understood from the start > > that much of the output would need to be handed off to distributed or > > private developers, but (in the sense of the economic idea of > > “mechanism design”) it wanted that distributed development to achieve a > > specific social goal, not just to be whatever-happens-next. The point > > in this work is that only looking at the large action by one actor at > > the beginning doesn’t solve a problem; it’s embedding that action in > > follow-through and having a longer-term plan. I think this is to Ed > > Angel’s point that LANL as a stand-alone achieves a large distortion, > > but doesn’t change the opportunities of the region around it in > > self-sustaining ways. > > > > I know the members on this list mostly don’t have powers of > > implementation, but as idle intellectual exercise, if you/we were > > portfolio managers, or really avant-garde regional planners, what would > > your design look like to get through critical mass thresholds to tip an > > interior, water-limited, relatively low-population region into some > > kind of self-maintaining decent standard of life and opportunity for > > whoever lived there stably for a long time. (And how many can that be, > > in water-limited regions?) Intel made a significant impact in ABQ, but > > putting a semiconductor fab in a desert is about as unsustainable a > > business decision as I can imagine. What resources exist currently? > > If you were designing the institutional ecosystem, and knew you needed > > some economic social function but couldn’t find an actor to fit it, > > could you define in somewhat operational terms what that function would > > need to be, and how much of the remainder of the context could you > > populate with specific actors and a plan to get them into place? > > > > I know this is much too loose and long-term to deal with immediate > > practicalities of interacting wtih the SF city council, but we often > > speak as if long-term future visioning efforts could in principle yield > > something useful. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > On Jan 15, 2020, at 4:30 AM, <[email protected]> < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Ach! > > > > > > I glad we are talking about this. It is the kind of issue that we, in > particular, ought to think up and speak out about. My own impulse would be > to entertain the possibility of a LANL-SF, but negotiate some sort of > arrangement, say, perhaps, that no classified work could be done in here. > > > > > > > But now I have heard from several voices that I respect deeply, each > speaking from very different kinds of experience, and all appearing to > agree that even in the absence of War Heads, hosting a national laboratory > would not benefit Santa Fe. But what are the alternatives? In other > words, are the ills you identify inherent to all human institutions, or > really only inherent to government ones. Would it be better if CMU put a > campus here? I have heard many of you express the same doubts about > universities. Would it be better if Google or Amazon put a campus here? > Why? Why are large for-profit institutions more to be trusted than > government and academic ones? At least with government institutions there > is the possibility of regulating them by popular will. Amazon, not so > much. Is your position that EVERY institution should be so small we can > drown it in a bathtub? So, set the threshold for anti trust action VERY > low. How bout this: every corporation with more than a billion dollars in > assets must place 5 percent of its annual income in a trust fund to > encourage competing start ups. Well, OK, split the College of Santa Fe > campus up. Give it to ten different real estate firms with instructions > that they must work independently. Treat it as a hazard, rather than an > opportunity. > > > > > > I heard a similar proposal for a solution to the truth problem on the > internet. Every retweet over ten-thousand contributes funds a conterarian > tweet on the same stream. In fact, how about a retweet limit on all > messages. No message can be retweeted more than ten-thousand times. > > > > > > Nick > > > Nicholas Thompson > > > Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology > > > Clark University > > > [email protected] > > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > > > > > > > > > From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steven A Smith > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:48 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fwd: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12; 00 > outside SF City Hall; bring friends > > > > > > Merle, et al - > > > Though I reject most of the extreme arguments I hear on both sides of > this issue, my instinct is that it would be better if Santa Fe did NOT > invite LANL/NNSA into the development of this critical/central/prime > location in the heart of *greater* Santa Fe. > > > I've been living in a variant of this high-dimensional, nonlinear, > sometimes subtle and nuanced question all of my (adult) life. I came to > LANL at 24 as a technophilic peacenik who believed MAD made sense (1980) > and was happy to ensure that WE had the BIG STICK. I raised two children > In Los Alamos and finally left in 2008 (27 years later) after Bechtel took > over, remaining in the region and in high-tech work. Along the way I was > confronted with *many* changes in the international political, cultural and > scientific landscape. The end of the Cold War and nuclear testing, a > nuclear arms-race between India/Pakistan, two Gulf Wars, a deep and abiding > awareness of the reality and threat of Climate Change (and other parallel > Endogenous Existential Threats). > > > I went through a few personal transformations as well, including > shepherding my two daughters into maturity along the way. My opinions have > become much stronger, broader and more nuanced over the years and I am > thankful to have had the perspective offered through the rich gradients > formed by our "tri-cultural heritage". LANL is much more/less than a > traditional "Anglo" company town and the work that goes on there is much > more/less than virtually any other facility. Adding Pu Pit production has > expanded that yet more, while the unfathomably deep explorations into what > may very well represent an array of other technological *existential > threats*. Possibly equally important sociopolitically, is the role of > Santa Fe (and San Juan Pueblo before it) as a locus of European Conquest, > including the Pueblo Revolt (I can see Black Mesa from my window as I > type). > > > I agree with most of Ed's assertions about the variability of quality > of the work at LANL, and certainly question the average "value received" > with such outrageous overheads and oft isolated efforts. I also agree with > his summary of the net socioeconomic impact on the region/state. While I > was (am via legacy savings and local available services) a beneficiary of > the very large amount of money pumped into the region, I see the > deleterious effects of it. > > > With my renewed interest and awareness in the "Endogenous Existential > Threats" of our time, I am more sensitive to the callousness of many of the > people and programs at LANL toward the local and global environment. The > bulk of the memoir Frank urged me to write (to save the list from my > TMI/TL;DR posts?) would be armatured around this braid of interesting (in > every sense of the word) paradoxes and contradictions. > > > I think New Mexico's legacy around Science and Technology is real and > meaningful, but has also been highly distorted by the influence of > government (and specifically Defense-related) money. > > > Carry On, > > > - Steve > > > On 1/13/20 2:41 PM, Merle Lefkoff wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > >> From: Leslie Lakind <[email protected]> > > >> Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:23 PM > > >> Subject: NO LANL IN SANTA FE! Wednesday, 12;00 outside SF City Hall; > bring friends > > >> To: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > >> From: Greg Mello <[email protected]> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Permalink for this letter. Please forward! Other Letters > > >> Home page; Press Releases; Bulletins; > > >> To subscribe to our Friends listserve (formerly by invitation only) > send a blank email here. To unsubscribe send a blank email here. > > >> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less content, less frequent) send > a blank email here. To unsubscribe send a blank email here. > > >> Our blog (makeover coming!): Remember your Humanity. Twitter: > @TrishABQ. > > >> Contribute. Volunteer. Contact us (Greg and Trish in our main office, > Lydia Clark in our Santa Fe office) > > >> This letter: Press conference outside Santa Fe City Hall at noon on > Wednesday Jan. 15 (map) -- please come, and please recruit others > > >> Dear New Mexico friends – > > >> As we have explained in previous letters, Wednesday is the day on > which the City will announce the finalists for "Master Developer" of the > former College of Santa Fe site (and possibly surrounding properties as > well, a 64- to ~100-acre project). The National Nuclear Security > Administration (NNSA) has applied for this role. NNSA and/or Los Alamos > National Laboratory (LANL) are present in some (not all) other proposals, > as tenant(s). > > >> The situation is opaque, fluid, and developing. So far, Mayor Webber > has disdainfully rebuffed our requests to meet or discuss the momentous > social, cultural, and economic development impacts of placing a nuclear > weapons campus in Santa Fe. (Don't be deceived -- that is exactly what LANL > is and what this would be.) > > >> People power may be the only force stronger than LANL's money and > corruption. We really need you to help us expand our numbers. > > >> If you live anywhere nearby please come to this joint press > conference, and please ask as many friends to come as possible. Sheer > attendance matters. A strong showing Wednesday will save countless hours of > work later, and will give wings to efforts to push back on LANL's entirely > unjustified expansion. There are many powerful people in Washington who > know LANL specializes in taxpayer ripoffs. Some of them need to see some > spine from us out here to take to their bosses. > > >> New Mexico is being selected to be a nuclear weapons support and > sacrifice area. That now includes the Santa Fe metro area. > > >> We may not know know the outcome of this first Midtown Campus > decision by noon Wednesday but regardless of that we must seize the day. > > >> While it seems absurd that NNSA could be a possible "master > developer," we can't be sure that Mayor Webber and the people around him > wouldn't want that -- or want, say, a training facility for plutonium > workers. We just don't know. > > >> This event will also give us a chance for us to network with each > other and with representatives of any other groups present, as well as > speak to any City officials willing to do so. > > >> Getting people to come on Wednesday is the sole action item we are > recommending right now. It is very, very important! > > >> Thank you! > > >> Greg, Trish, Lydia, Ernie, Michelle, and the rest of the Study Group > > >> -- > > >> Greg Mello > > >> Los Alamos Study Group > > >> 2901 Summit Place NE > > >> Albuquerque, NM 87106 > > >> 505-265-1200 office > > >> 505-577-8563 cell > > >> To subscribe to our Friends listserve send a blank email here. To > unsubscribe send a blank email here. > > >> To subscribe to our Main listserve (less frequent) send a blank email > here. To unsubscribe send a blank email here. > > >> Our blog: Remember your Humanity. Twitter: @TrishABQ. We have shut > down our Facebook page. > > >> --- > > >> To unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> America is waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that > > >> 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches. > > >> Werner Herzog > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D. > > >> President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy > > >> emergentdiplomacy.org > > >> Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA > > >> [email protected] > > >> mobile: (303) 859-5609 > > >> skype: merle.lelfkoff2 > > >> twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff > > >> > > >> > > >> ============================================================ > > >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > >> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > >> archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > ============================================================ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove >
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
