OHMIGOSH, Frank. Given that my whole career has been built on pointing out the implicit vicious circularity of biological arguments, It would seem that I should have encountered this distinction before. Ugh.
Thank you for that link. I guess I need to be quiet for a bit. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ From: Friam <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 1:16 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dogs, Computers, Joy Glen did not invent the word predicative. See https://iep.utm.edu/predicat/ --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Tue, Jul 28, 2020, 1:03 PM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: You are pushing me hard, here, but I think the up/down thang is orthogonal to the predicativist position. (You invented that word, right?) We Predicativists need only assert that there is a before and after: i.e., BEFORE we can say whether a thing is, we have to have said, up front, what it would be for that thing to be. We can take it back soon as we see where it leads. Nick Nicholas Thompson Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology Clark University [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -----Original Message----- From: Friam <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of u?l? ??? Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:47 PM To: FriAM <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Dogs, Computers, Joy Hm. I appreciate an attempt to cleanly separate the predicative parts from the impredicative parts. But you don't seem to be allowing *any* impredicative parts. Your push to the universal foundation *smells* like predicativism to me, especially when you go off into monism la-la land. My claim would be that Doug is correct that the words (or concepts even) are never *defined* because they cannot be defined in the way the predicativists want. This perspective is anti-foundationalism. It's not turtles all the way down. It IS that there is no such thing as *down*. On 7/28/20 11:33 AM, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > I saw you coming! My bottom line is not predication but the explicitness of > whatever predications one makes. What could, of course define consciousness > as "whatever humans do that seems to me conscious" or "Whatever is produced > by a human brain". But, after trying to do science with such definitions, I > think most would realize that these definitions are incapacitating. At that > point, a scientist relinquishes those definitions and begins to seek others, > definitions that actually direct one toward the possibility of finding > answers. Thus, I stipulate that definitions are part of the dialectic of > discovery. Neither I, nor Frank, is allowed to say M is the meaning of P for > all time; we are only allowed to say that for some set of purposes, in some > context, M is the meaning of P. Are we constantly pressing a head toward the > most universally applicable definitions? You bet! Do we ever get there? > Not yet! -- ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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