Carl - Acknowledged. The foreground/background thing is always tricky. I don't mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal freedoms", even though such are in some sense an illusion. Perhaps someone can articulate this better than I have?
- Steve > Steve, > > You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms". > Perhaps that is unwarranted. I just see no reason to be an ass. > > >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you > are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others > and their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to > me FWIW. > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Carl Tollander wrote: >> -9,-8.1 >> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day. >> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian. > > I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term > "Libertarian" for themselves. My experience with the > *L*ibertarian self-identified is they seem to lean toward a > virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* on others > under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* . > When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and > appeal of competition?) I was more seduced by some of that. Now > it just makes me feel systemically ill. > > I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you > are clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others > and their personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to > me FWIW. > > - Steve > >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more >> weight on maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) >> relationships. I don’t think this inclination is overtly >> authoritarian. However, a strong desire to maintain a >> social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for them, and >> that brings in (say) the church. When a social network is >> more important than having any sort of purpose, weird things >> happen. Wired has an article on some crazies up in Forks, >> Washington that is worth a skim. >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *David Eric >> Smith >> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >> >> >> >> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other >> decades when it wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt. >> >> >> >> Is that due to demographic sorting? In more prosperous (or >> even just earlier) times, enough people stayed near where >> they were born that cultures got some mix of preferences, and >> you didn’t have whole regions “submitting too much to the >> authorities in their lives”. But when those who wanted out >> could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who stayed >> behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences >> that had caused them to stay behind? >> >> >> >> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/ >> >> >> >> -- rec -- >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, >> among other strange things, that Warren is a >> right-leaning authoritarian. If that is true, which >> I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the >> electorate in a very obscure way. And I am pretty >> sure I am not far to the left of Bernie Sanders. >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of >> *Stephen Guerin >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee >> Group <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >> >> >> >> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is? >> Something MUST be wrong, here. >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of >> *Prof David West >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM >> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >> >> >> >> Econ left/right: -0.88 >> >> Social Lib/Auth: -6.1 >> >> >> >> davew >> >> NOT a Libertarian >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 >> PM, [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Do we all agree at an insanely high level? >> Then wtf have we been arguing about all these >> years. Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take >> the test before we bury all our hatchets. >> >> >> >> n >> >> >> >> Nicholas Thompson >> >> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >> >> Clark University >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> *On >> Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM >> >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity >> Coffee Group <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >> >> >> >> I was pretty much dead center in the lower >> left quadrant, which was surprising to me. I >> would have thought I would be in the middle >> of the whole graph. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on >> economics and strongly libertarian on >> social issues >> >> >> >> George Duncan >> >> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, >> Carnegie Mellon University >> >> georgeduncanart.com >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1> >> >> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram >> >> Land: (505) 983-6895 >> >> Mobile: (505) 469-4671 >> >> >> >> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the >> tension between matrix order and luminous >> chaos. >> >> >> >> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty >> may or may not come later. It may then be >> a valuable delusion." >> >> From "Notes to myself on beginning a >> painting" by Richard Diebenkorn. >> >> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty >> where we come alive to our truest power." >> Joanna Macy. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon >> zingale <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I just took the political compass >> test and surprise surprise, I am a >> >> left-libertarian. >> >> >> >> Take the test here if you are interested: >> >> https://www.politicalcompass.org/test >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1> >> >> >> >> >> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from: >> http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... >> -..-. .... . .-. . >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 >> bit.ly/virtualfriam >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,ekClG_DBTqPo6C7A6DXsjVIokgMBaTGrBE7ATtKTtm2hi5Njtl0FGUiiKUfJepRvn6qu_lTB0WCdeFKuKoWE5MAh0Rge8DsCtrtyYjAiNcM,&typo=1> >> >> un/subscribe >> >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,-2bcPOXRFkpS-tskkc3t9P8tqs4zzFg1PBMM4kOzWo_fPE3nCyMqS4GSlbdQiO75nZdLAC8dL0anDJFz1wOI5EWGPSJS2NXq1LujWY6dcOQq&typo=1> >> >> archives: >> http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> FRIAM-COMIC >> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> >> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gNImAW3qmFgG6MkzjXfRJcyRpRcKUgnF0LZycM_ZR5aKXUG-L3K39B6Vem9KDXMB_GkwpOiF2wAPW4SRNjxBiO7IwNoLMfdAkuPYyVjVxAA,&typo=1> >> >> - 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