Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen.

davew


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote:
> Carl -

> Acknowledged.   The foreground/background thing is always tricky.   I don't 
> mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not being 
> an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal freedoms", even 
> though such are in some sense an illusion.   Perhaps someone can articulate 
> this better than I have?
> 
> - Steve
>> Steve, 
>> 
>> You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms".   
>> Perhaps that is unwarranted.   I just see no reason to be an ass.
>> 
>>> >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are 
>>> >>clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their 
>>> >>personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Carl Tollander wrote:
>>> 
>>>> -9,-8.1 
>>>> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day.
>>>> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian.
>>> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for 
>>> themselves.   My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is they 
>>> seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert their will* 
>>> on others under the guise of protecting *their will from subversion* .   
>>> When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and rhetoric and appeal of 
>>> competition?) I was more seduced by some of that.  Now it just makes me 
>>> feel systemically ill.

>>> I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are 
>>> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their 
>>> personal freedoms.  That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW.

>>> - Steve

>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on 
>>>>> maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships.   I don’t 
>>>>> think this inclination is overtly authoritarian.   However, a strong 
>>>>> desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms for 
>>>>> them, and that brings in (say) the church.  When a social network is more 
>>>>> important than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen.   Wired 
>>>>> has an article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is worth a 
>>>>> skim. 

>>>>>  


>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *David Eric Smith
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM
>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>  

>>>>> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it 
>>>>> wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt.

>>>>>  

>>>>> Is that due to demographic sorting?  In more prosperous (or even just 
>>>>> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that 
>>>>> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions 
>>>>> “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”.  But when those 
>>>>> who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones who 
>>>>> stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences that 
>>>>> had caused them to stay behind?


>>>>> 

>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> -- rec --

>>>>>>  

>>>>>>  

>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other 
>>>>>>> strange things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian.   If that 
>>>>>>> is true, which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring the 
>>>>>>> electorate in a very obscure way.   And I am pretty sure I am not far 
>>>>>>> to the left of Bernie Sanders. 

>>>>>>>  


>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Stephen Guerin
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <[email protected]> wrote:

>>>>>>>> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is?  Something MUST be wrong, here.

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson

>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>>>>>>>> Clark University

>>>>>>>> [email protected]

>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>  


>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Prof David 
>>>>>>>> West
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> Econ left/right:      -0.88

>>>>>>>> Social Lib/Auth:     -6.1

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> davew

>>>>>>>> NOT a Libertarian

>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>>>>>>>>> Do we all agree at an insanely high level?  Then wtf have we been 
>>>>>>>>> arguing about all these years.  Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take 
>>>>>>>>> the test before we bury all our hatchets.

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> n

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson

>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

>>>>>>>>> Clark University

>>>>>>>>> [email protected]

>>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz

>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM

>>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>

>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant, which was 
>>>>>>>>> surprising to me. I would have thought I would be in the middle of 
>>>>>>>>> the whole graph.

>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and strongly 
>>>>>>>>>> libertarian on social issues

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> George Duncan

>>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University

>>>>>>>>>> georgeduncanart.com 
>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

>>>>>>>>>> Land: (505) 983-6895  

>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (505) 469-4671

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order 
>>>>>>>>>> and luminous chaos.

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. 
>>>>>>>>>> It may then be a valuable delusion."

>>>>>>>>>> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard 
>>>>>>>>>> Diebenkorn. 

>>>>>>>>>> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our 
>>>>>>>>>> truest power." Joanna Macy.

>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon zingale <[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> I just took the political compass test and surprise surprise, I am a

>>>>>>>>>>> left-libertarian.

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>> Take the test here if you are interested:

>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.politicalcompass.org/test 
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1>

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png>

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>>  

>>>>>>>>>>> --

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>>>>>>>>>>>  

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>>>>>>>>  


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>>>>>  

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>>>> 
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