Carl, Mentioning art and translation made me think of this book
*The Chinese Written Character as a Medium for Poetry <https://books.google.com/books?id=P14rAH8xU9EC&printsec=frontcover>*, composed by the Ernest Fenollosa, edited by Ezra Pound <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Pound> after the author's death, 1918. I frequently refer to it when confronting issues of cognition and language and culture; and as insight into why Whorf was right and why he was wrong. You might enjoy it. davew On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 9:45 PM, Carl Tollander wrote: > Dave, > > Thanks, not there yet. Somewhere between Zen and Shinto, anyhows. > > The test is a mirror, in the sense that it proposed a lot of photons in short > order that I would not normally consider, which brought some opportunity for > self-reflection. A bunch of "gee, that's odd" moments. > > Sort of like studying Japanese grammar might give some insights about the > English language and the nature of translation. One of the works that > disabused me of western notions of Japanese "traditional" arts was Edith > Grossman's "Why Translation Matters". (note -- she doesn't talk about Japan > at all) Respect as engagement rather than obeisance. > > C > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 9:02 PM Prof David West <[email protected]> wrote: >> __ >> Carl is very Japanese and master of Drum Zen. >> >> davew >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, at 8:50 PM, Steve Smith wrote: >>> Carl - >>> Acknowledged. The foreground/background thing is always tricky. I don't >>> mean to attribute any reality to "personal freedoms", yet somehow "not >>> being an ass" is something *like* respecting others "personal freedoms", >>> even though such are in some sense an illusion. Perhaps someone can >>> articulate this better than I have? >>> >>> - Steve >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> You assume I have some fealty to the notion of "personal freedoms". >>>> Perhaps that is unwarranted. I just see no reason to be an ass. >>>> >>>>> >>I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are >>>>> >>clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their >>>>> >>personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:18 AM Steve Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Carl Tollander wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -9,-8.1 >>>>>> But I do think it would depend a bit on the day. >>>>>> Oddly, never thought of myself as a libertarian. >>>>> I think some pretty strong *Fascists* co-opted the term "Libertarian" for >>>>> themselves. My experience with the *L*ibertarian self-identified is >>>>> they seem to lean toward a virulent extremist willingness to *assert >>>>> their will* on others under the guise of protecting *their will from >>>>> subversion* . When I was younger (more juiced on the hormones and >>>>> rhetoric and appeal of competition?) I was more seduced by some of that. >>>>> Now it just makes me feel systemically ill. >>>>> I don't know you well Carl, but from what I do think I know, you are >>>>> clearly *very* independent and *very* considerate of others and their >>>>> personal freedoms. That sounds pretty *l*ibertarian to me FWIW. >>>>> - Steve >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 8:48 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> There is another aspect of staying behind which puts more weight on >>>>>>> maintaining local (e.g. family and childhood) relationships. I don’t >>>>>>> think this inclination is overtly authoritarian. However, a strong >>>>>>> desire to maintain a social fabric could lead to policing mechanisms >>>>>>> for them, and that brings in (say) the church. When a social network >>>>>>> is more important than having any sort of purpose, weird things happen. >>>>>>> Wired has an article on some crazies up in Forks, Washington that is >>>>>>> worth a skim. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *David Eric >>>>>>> Smith >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 7:35 AM >>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So this is metastasizing now, and there have been other decades when it >>>>>>> wasn’t such a problem, or at least not as overt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is that due to demographic sorting? In more prosperous (or even just >>>>>>> earlier) times, enough people stayed near where they were born that >>>>>>> cultures got some mix of preferences, and you didn’t have whole regions >>>>>>> “submitting too much to the authorities in their lives”. But when >>>>>>> those who wanted out could get out, and did so systematically, the ones >>>>>>> who stayed behind could create a tailored paradise for the preferences >>>>>>> that had caused them to stay behind? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Roger Critchlow <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/12/trump-voter-authoritarian-research/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- rec -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 12:27 AM Marcus Daniels <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> There’s a page on the 2020 election where they claim, among other >>>>>>>>> strange things, that Warren is a right-leaning authoritarian. If >>>>>>>>> that is true, which I doubt, it says to me politicians are mirroring >>>>>>>>> the electorate in a very obscure way. And I am pretty sure I am not >>>>>>>>> far to the left of Bernie Sanders. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Stephen >>>>>>>>> Guerin >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:39 PM >>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ec=-5.75 & soc=-6.3 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, 9:18 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I’m more of a libertarian than Dave is? Something MUST be wrong, >>>>>>>>>> here. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson >>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>>>>>>>>> Clark University >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,U3OccPSjskXK4svW9X1qk3Vv7E5UwkKy9mLBuwBfoPfJKYxJ6aCBK0PVs7udT_TYGhprp1R603GJlx6xKqM35rw3C-x7J0zwGZ6_tMf3hqMPHZB64xRxPw,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Prof David >>>>>>>>>> West >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 6:39 PM >>>>>>>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Econ left/right: -0.88 >>>>>>>>>> Social Lib/Auth: -6.1 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> davew >>>>>>>>>> NOT a Libertarian >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020, at 5:56 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Do we all agree at an insanely high level? Then wtf have we been >>>>>>>>>>> arguing about all these years. Let’s wait until Glen and Dave take >>>>>>>>>>> the test before we bury all our hatchets. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Nicholas Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology >>>>>>>>>>> Clark University >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwordpress.clarku.edu%2fnthompson%2f&c=E,1,jI9pg2_C34oOCpyabOwNVYM7KJGCPx7H3EupAcE2q9TK2V75UO7IrMX_UOS1TIZ0puSAcbRFu09JGz8yK4gzt6DIJCqNtiA3EEOMsqYT64DoqXJS7TM,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Gary >>>>>>>>>>> Schiltz >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2020 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Political compass teest >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I was pretty much dead center in the lower left quadrant, which was >>>>>>>>>>> surprising to me. I would have thought I would be in the middle of >>>>>>>>>>> the whole graph. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 4:52 PM George Duncan <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Jon, I took it. I'm barely left on economics and strongly >>>>>>>>>>>> libertarian on social issues >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> George Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>> Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University >>>>>>>>>>>> georgeduncanart.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fgeorgeduncanart.com%2f&c=E,1,7A1nvLLwvbARh5EsbrcBP_x1ncqDWHW84o2ARPieWFtHxbGsgklMKBqeuNgbEd_czryT4FTxDDbM2mCDHXdJbmd_5-i0Yf4oVpAGGN27uHZ8&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>> See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram >>>>>>>>>>>> Land: (505) 983-6895 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (505) 469-4671 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix >>>>>>>>>>>> order and luminous chaos. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. >>>>>>>>>>>> It may then be a valuable delusion." >>>>>>>>>>>> From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard >>>>>>>>>>>> Diebenkorn. >>>>>>>>>>>> "It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our >>>>>>>>>>>> truest power." Joanna Macy. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 3:22 PM jon zingale <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I just took the political compass test and surprise surprise, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> am a >>>>>>>>>>>>> left-libertarian. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Take the test here if you are interested: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.politicalcompass.org/test >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.politicalcompass.org%2ftest&c=E,1,e8hAuyhPdtiZ876M9sd6OmWzNeLJXSYR8MHrODvh3vN2g_nLrK21RY_5OBeUJlK4p0Rzh08Ymx64c4LiIgp7JiIDXXzqbbqx3zHFw_W8CPvxLq3_SnjwgA,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/file/t395744/Screen_Shot_2020-10-10_at_3.png> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >>>>>>>>>>>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fbit.ly%2fvirtualfriam&c=E,1,ekClG_DBTqPo6C7A6DXsjVIokgMBaTGrBE7ATtKTtm2hi5Njtl0FGUiiKUfJepRvn6qu_lTB0WCdeFKuKoWE5MAh0Rge8DsCtrtyYjAiNcM,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> un/subscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fredfish.com%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2ffriam_redfish.com&c=E,1,-2bcPOXRFkpS-tskkc3t9P8tqs4zzFg1PBMM4kOzWo_fPE3nCyMqS4GSlbdQiO75nZdLAC8dL0anDJFz1wOI5EWGPSJS2NXq1LujWY6dcOQq&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2ffriam-comic.blogspot.com%2f&c=E,1,gNImAW3qmFgG6MkzjXfRJcyRpRcKUgnF0LZycM_ZR5aKXUG-L3K39B6Vem9KDXMB_GkwpOiF2wAPW4SRNjxBiO7IwNoLMfdAkuPYyVjVxAA,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>> - 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