On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Tomas L. Byrnes wrote: > The experiment is a dual one: > > 1: How far can someone be manipulated. > > 2: Are people really such sheep? > > My unscientific gut says that if you took the sample primarily from the > US Military, you'd get lots of demurs. > > The average Joe doesn't know what voltage is likely to hurt, or what the > laws of land warfare are. > > I think all this proves is that humans are highly influenced by their > social environment.
Read up on (YouTube will do): Standford Prison Experiment Books to grab: Hogan's on cults (forgot the name), Influence by Cialdini > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gadi Evron [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:04 PM >> To: Alex Eckelberry >> Cc: Tomas L. Byrnes; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah; >> [email protected]; [email protected] >> Subject: RE: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right >> >> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Alex Eckelberry wrote: >>> True, and there is a point of ethics vs. morals. But in the end, >>> there's a line that, IMHO, shouldn't be crossed. >> >> The participants themselves were manipulated. Their ethics are fine, >> they >> are simply not aware of what's going on or how to resist it. >> >> Smart people as we may be, we all treat dozens of things automatically, >> which can be abused. Belief in authority is one thing.. training for >> suspended disbelief in movies is another. >> >> The ethical issue here is the experiment being conducted. >> >> >>> Besides, at a purely ethical level, torture is a low-quality >>> interrogation technique. It's overrated in its effectiveness, and >>> creates boomerang effects which don't benefit an overall cause. >>> >>> Nevertheless, even arguing torture at a logical level is difficult > for >>> me. It's just reprehensible, not because of some pacificist > ideology: >>> Because beating the living shit out of someone for information brings >> us >>> to the level of animals, and that's what we've been trying to evolve >>> from for a very long time. >>> >>> Something Matthew Alexander spoke and wrote of recently: >>> >>> http://snipurl.com/8wosv >>> >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes >>> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:19 PM >>> To: Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah >>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right >>> >>> I guess it depends on who you think you owe an ethical duty to, >> doesn't >>> it. >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:funsec- >> [email protected]] >>>> On Behalf Of Gadi Evron >>>> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:11 PM >>>> To: Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah >>>> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right >>>> >>>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah >>> wrote: >>>>> People are still willing to torture people, when told to do so by > an >>>> authority. >>>>> >>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/health/7791278.stm >>>>> >>>>> This may explain some recent happenings, but it is still > disturbing, >>>> nonetheless. >>>>> We in infosec, and members of society as a whole, have to push >> harder >>>> on the >>>>> ethics front. >>>> >>>> What does this have to do with ethics? >>>> It's a trick question, think before answering. :) >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> ====================== (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer) >>>>> [email protected] [email protected] >>> [email protected] >>>>> This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I >> have >>> >>>>> set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now >>>>> choose life.... - Deuteronomy > 30:19 >>>>> victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm >>>> blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >>>>> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >>>>> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >>>> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >>>> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. >>> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec >>> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list. >>> > _______________________________________________ Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts. https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
