I think there is a question whether under many circumstances and particularly those prevalent today there is any real possibiity of "incremental change".
The issues concerning the possibility of "change" seem to have to do with "power" and "interests". whether those with the power are prepared to share that power and thus allow for real and substantive change (that question is particularly of interest in the context of the Russian and French Revolutions); or alternatively whether those with the power see it as being sufficiently in their interests to allow again for real and substantive change (that question is particularly of interest in the context of Britain in the 19th Century and the US in the '60's), is I think very questionable. The indications would be currently that the 1% (for lack of a better characterisation of those with the power) are if anything looking to further consolidate that power (i.e. to diminish the "sharing of power" that the rise of popular democracy has represented) in many of the countries where this matters--the USA, the UK, the EU; and further that this same 1%, for reasons of technology and other knowledge based developments don't necessarily see that their interests would be advance by allowing for incremental change/(or preventing the diminution in the current degree of distribution of wealth and opportunity that currently exists. M From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 10:44 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen? Russia is a prime example of what can happen following a revolution. The good feelings about what had happened in 1917 lasted for a year or two when there was still a great deal of hope and charisma about the good that could come of building the communist state. Factories had to be built, and dams, roads and railroads to the far corners of the country. What resulted from this was a huge amount of forced labour and shipping off large parts of the population to the notorious gulags. The Soviet Union, which spent a couple of decades dying in the 1970' and 80's, breathed its last gasp in 1991, and a 1%/99% form of capitalism took over. Many saw it as a new revolution: out with the authoritarian state; in with freedom. But it didn't work that way. When I was there in 1995, the oligarchs looked after themselves at the top and "mafias" looked after themselves at the bottom. Everyone between lived in a state of poverty and chaos. What Russia demonstrated both in 1917 and 1991 was that people do have to be very careful in what they wish for. Personally, I see improvement in the lives of the 99% happening not through revolution but little by little. Though the road has not been easy, a considerable part of the world has come a long way in the provision of education and health care and in looking after the unemployed and the indigent. Often, it has been a process of one step forward and two steps backward but things have generally moved in a positive direction. However, we do have a long way to go. Much still needs to be done. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Harrell <mailto:[email protected]> To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen? Years ago the great English Diction coach Dorothy Uris was hired to go to the Soviet Union to teach English Diction to the Bolshoi. She was one my mentors at Manhattan School of Music. When she came back we had dinner and she spoke about what she had learned by about their Communism. She had gotten ill while there and was treated by their medical system. She was assigned a person to care for her other than the hospital staff. A person who brought her tea, chatted and generally kept her spirits up. She looked at me and said surprisingly, they are a country that has decided to do without wealthy folks. She said that once they retired they had the same as everyone else. Whether they liked that or not has been the discussion here about dachas and privileges but there is a funny anecdote here. I remember Nancy Reagan saying at the Hermitage that she understood the revolution against such opulence in the face of such poverty. Today I tried to find the quote and found another that said the opposite. Strange! Memory is not always correct but it came in the midst of questions about American Indians from Russian Students and silly statements by Reagan. I remember thinking that Nancy had gotten it but then it seems she didn't. Or maybe, like at other times, it was changed. Meanwhile Dorothy felt that they had less technological medical facilities but more human and felt that they were healing of her. She also understood the power of beurocracy and its inertia although she was impressed with the power of the Soviet Performing Arts. Something that Americas were taught as being staid, threadbare and oppressive. We've seen the lie of that in the Soviet Artists here in America who came from that system. Still Civil Servants and human competitiveness are powerful problems for all governments to solve and make work. REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael gurstein Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:29 PM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen? I think that one of the major problems/failings in thinking about "revolution" is to see the desireable outcome as an end state--equality of all, etc.etc. Rather the most desireably outcome of a revolution would be a process. a becoming . a process of enablement, of empowerment, of achieving rather than of achievement. When seen in that light we can discuss partial "revolutions", localized "revolutions", and so on. The critique of the 1% then becomes not a critique of who they are or what they own but rather how their control prevents processes of enablement/empowerment/realization to occur. M From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:14 PM To: [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' Subject: Re: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen? Not quite sure of what I mean. The idea of a revolution is to transcend the miserable state a people are in and to create a much better and more egalitarian world. But does it really ever happen? The Enlightenment led to the French Revolution, huge head choppings, and the Napoleonic Wars. The Russian revolution resulted in the hugely repressive Stalinist state. The American Revolution has resulted in the 99% vs. the 1%. The ideals of Chairman Mao have led to repressive state capitalism. What I'm trying to say is what John Gray said far better than I could in his "Black Mass" -- revolutionary ideals never turn out the way they were supposed to, and do be careful what you wish for. What, for example, should the 99% vs. the 1% result in? Even if major reforms were instituted, it would probably not go much further than 98% vs. 2%. A happy 100% egalitarian world is a complete fantasy. The reason I used a quote from the 1970's and one from this year is to demonstrate that things haven't really changed very much. It was hippies then, occupiers now. Yours from the dark side, Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Cordell <mailto:[email protected]> To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' <mailto:[email protected]> ; [email protected] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:09 PM Subject: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen? Not to be too trite, but what do you mean by "will anything ever really happen?" From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:43 PM To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'; [email protected] Subject: [Futurework] Will it ever happen? A couple of quotes: THE REVOLUTION of the twentieth century will take place in the United States. It is only there that it can happen. And it has already begun. 'Whether or not that revolution spreads to the rest of the world depends on whether or not it succeeds first in America. I am not unaware of the shock and incredulity such statements may cause at every level of the European Left and among the nations of the Third World. I know it is difficult to believe that America-the fatherland of imperialism, the power responsible for the war in Vietnam, the nation of Joe McCarthy's witch hunts, the exploiter of the world's natural resources-is, or could become, the cradle of revolution. (Jean Francois Revel, Without Marx or Jesus, the new American revolution has begun, 1970) The Occupy movements are the physical embodiment of hope. They returned us to a world where empathy is a primary attribute. They defied the profit-driven hierarchical structures of corporate capitalism. They know hope has a cost, that it is not easy or comfortable, that it requires self-sacrifice and discomfort and finally faith. In Zuccotti Park and throughout the they slept on concrete every night. Their clothes were soiled. They ate more bagels and peanut butter than they ever thought possible. They tasted fear, were beaten, went to jail, were blinded by pepper spray, cried, hugged each laughed, sung, talked too long in general assemblies, saw their chants drift upward to the office towers above them, wondered if it is worth it, if anyone cared if they would win. (Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco, Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt, 2012) A question: Hope does seem to spring eternal in the revolutionary breast, but will anything ever really happen? 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