The modern reality is that there isn't a simple
1% power group at the top. There are a dozen or
more specialized power groups in any advanced
country today. They're not in the slightest bit
interested in inhibiting the power of the people.
That was won a century ago with the rise of one
of the most powerful specialized groups -- namely
the top layers of the civil services. What the
specialized power groups are mainly interested in
is competition among themselves as to how much
each of them can influence the important
decisions that are ultimately taken by what, on a
daily basis, is the least powerful group of them
all, -- the government itself. The government
only has constitutional validity because only one
single, visible group is seen to be responsible
by the "sleeping dog", the people, for their
condition. And if that condition deteriorates and
the people revolt, then it's the governmental
group, rather than any other, that gets it in the neck (or gets it cut off).
Keith
At 16:33 30/07/2012, M wrote:
I think there is a question whether under many
circumstances and particularly those prevalent
today there is any real possibiity of "incremental change"
The issues concerning the possibility of
"change" seem to have to do with "power" and
"interests"
whether those with the power are
prepared to share that power and thus allow for
real and substantive change (that question is
particularly of interest in the context of the
Russian and French Revolutions); or
alternatively whether those with the power see
it as being sufficiently in their interests to
allow again for real and substantive change
(that question is particularly of interest in
the context of Britain in the 19th Century and
the US in the '60's), is I think very questionable.
The indications would be currently that the 1%
(for lack of a better characterisation of those
with the power) are if anything looking to
further consolidate that power (i.e. to diminish
the "sharing of power" that the rise of popular
democracy has represented) in many of the
countries where this matters--the USA, the UK,
the EU; and further that this same 1%, for
reasons of technology and other knowledge based
developments don't necessarily see that their
interests would be advance by allowing for
incremental change/(or preventing the diminution
in the current degree of distribution of wealth
and opportunity that currently exists
M
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 10:44 AM
To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION
Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
Russia is a prime example of what can happen
following a revolution. The good feelings about
what had happened in 1917 lasted for a year or
two when there was still a great deal of hope
and charisma about the good that could come of
building the communist state. Factories had to
be built, and dams, roads and railroads to the
far corners of the country. What resulted from
this was a huge amount of forced labour and
shipping off large parts of the population to
the notorious gulags. The Soviet Union, which
spent a couple of decades dying in the 1970' and
80's, breathed its last gasp in 1991, and a
1%/99% form of capitalism took over. Many saw
it as a new revolution: out with the
authoritarian state; in with freedom. But it
didn't work that way. When I was there in 1995,
the oligarchs looked after themselves at the top
and "mafias" looked after themselves at the
bottom. Everyone between lived in a state of
poverty and chaos. What Russia demonstrated
both in 1917 and 1991 was that people do have
to be very careful in what they wish for.
Personally, I see improvement in the lives of
the 99% happening not through revolution but
little by little. Though the road has not been
easy, a considerable part of the world has come
a long way in the provision of education and
health care and in looking after the unemployed
and the indigent. Often, it has been a process
of one step forward and two steps backward but
things have generally moved in a positive
direction. However, we do have a long way to go. Much still needs to be done.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>Ray Harrell
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>'RE-DESIGNING
WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
Years ago the great English Diction coach
Dorothy Uris was hired to go to the Soviet Union
to teach English Diction to the Bolshoi. She
was one my mentors at Manhattan School of
Music. When she came back we had dinner and
she spoke about what she had learned by about
their Communism. She had gotten ill while
there and was treated by their medical system.
She was assigned a person to care for her other
than the hospital staff. A person who brought
her tea, chatted and generally kept her spirits
up. She looked at me and said surprisingly,
they are a country that has decided to do
without wealthy folks. She said that once
they retired they had the same as everyone
else. Whether they liked that or not has been
the discussion here about dachas and privileges
but there is a funny anecdote here. I remember
Nancy Reagan saying at the Hermitage that she
understood the revolution against such opulence
in the face of such poverty. Today I tried to
find the quote and found another that said the
opposite. Strange! Memory is not always
correct but it came in the midst of questions
about American Indians from Russian Students and
silly statements by Reagan. I remember
thinking that Nancy had gotten it but then it
seems she didn't. Or maybe, like at other times, it was changed.
Meanwhile Dorothy felt that they had less
technological medical facilities but more human
and felt that they were healing of her. She
also understood the power of beurocracy and its
inertia although she was impressed with the
power of the Soviet Performing
Arts. Something that Americas were taught as
being staid, threadbare and oppressive. We've
seen the lie of that in the Soviet Artists here
in America who came from that system. Still
Civil Servants and human competitiveness are
powerful problems for all governments to solve and make work.
REH
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of michael gurstein
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:29 PM
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected];
'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
I think that one of the major problems/failings
in thinking about "revolution" is to see the
desireable outcome as an end state--equality of
all, etc.etc. Rather the most desireably
outcome of a revolution would be a process
a
becoming
a process of enablement, of
empowerment, of achieving rather than of
achievement
When seen in that light we can
discuss partial "revolutions", localized
"revolutions", and so on
The critique of the 1%
then becomes not a critique of who they are or
what they own but rather how their control
prevents processes of enablement/empowerment/realization to occur.
M
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:14 PM
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected];
'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
Not quite sure of what I mean. The idea of a
revolution is to transcend the miserable state a
people are in and to create a much better and
more egalitarian world. But does it really ever
happen? The Enlightenment led to the French
Revolution, huge head choppings, and the
Napoleonic Wars. The Russian revolution
resulted in the hugely repressive Stalinist
state. The American Revolution has resulted in
the 99% vs. the 1%. The ideals of Chairman Mao
have led to repressive state capitalism. What
I'm trying to say is what John Gray said far
better than I could in his "Black Mass" --
revolutionary ideals never turn out the way they
were supposed to, and do be careful what you wish for.
What, for example, should the 99% vs. the 1%
result in? Even if major reforms were
instituted, it would probably not go much
further than 98% vs. 2%. A happy 100%
egalitarian world is a complete fantasy. The
reason I used a quote from the 1970's and one
from this year is to demonstrate that things
haven't really changed very much. It was hippies then, occupiers now.
Yours from the dark side,
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>Arthur Cordell
To:
<mailto:[email protected]>'RE-DESIGNING
WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' ;
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:09 PM
Subject: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
Not to be too trite, but what do you mean
by will anything ever really happen?
From:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ed Weick
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:43 PM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,
EDUCATION';
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Subject: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
A couple of quotes:
THE REVOLUTION of the twentieth century will
take place in the United States. It is only
there that it can happen. And it has already
begun. Whether or not that revolution spreads
to the rest of the world depends on whether or
not it succeeds first in America.
I am not unaware of the shock and incredulity
such statements may cause at every level of the
European Left and among the nations of the Third
World. I know it is difficult to believe that
Americathe fatherland of imperialism, the power
responsible for the war in Vietnam, the nation
of Joe McCarthys witch hunts, the exploiter of
the worlds natural resourcesis, or could
become, the cradle of revolution. (Jean
Francois Revel, Without Marx or Jesus, the new
American revolution has begun, 1970)
The Occupy movements are the physical embodiment
of hope. They returned us to a world where
empathy is a primary attribute. They defied the
profit-driven hierarchical structures of
corporate capitalism. They know hope has a cost,
that it is not easy or comfortable, that it
requires self-sacrifice and discomfort and
finally faith. In Zuccotti Park and throughout
the they slept on concrete every night. Their
clothes were soiled. They ate more bagels and
peanut butter than they ever thought possible.
They tasted fear, were beaten, went to jail,
were blinded by pepper spray, cried, hugged each
laughed, sung, talked too long in general
assemblies, saw their chants drift upward to the
office towers above them, wondered if it is
worth it, if anyone cared if they would
win. (Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco, Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt, 2012)
A question:
Hope does seem to spring eternal in the
revolutionary breast, but will anything ever really happen?
Ed
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