I think there is a question whether under many circumstances and
particularly those prevalent today there is any real possibiity of
"incremental change"...
The issues concerning the possibility of "change" seem to have to do
with "power" and "interests"... whether those with the power are
prepared to share that power and thus allow for real and substantive
change (that question is particularly of interest in the context of
the Russian and French Revolutions); or alternatively whether those
with the power see it as being sufficiently in their interests to
allow again for real and substantive change (that question is
particularly of interest in the context of Britain in the 19th
Century and the US in the '60's), is I think very questionable.
The indications would be currently that the 1% (for lack of a better
characterisation of those with the power) are if anything looking to
further consolidate that power (i.e. to diminish the "sharing of
power" that the rise of popular democracy has represented) in many of
the countries where this matters--the USA, the UK, the EU; and
further that this same 1%, for reasons of technology and other
knowledge based developments don't necessarily see that their
interests would be advance by allowing for incremental change/(or
preventing the diminution in the current degree of distribution of
wealth and opportunity that currently exists...
M
*From:* [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Ed Weick
*Sent:* Monday, July 30, 2012 10:44 AM
*To:* RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION
*Subject:* Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
Russia is a prime example of what can happen following a revolution.
The good feelings about what had happened in 1917 lasted for a year
or two when there was still a great deal of hope and charisma about
the good that could come of building the communist state. Factories
had to be built, and dams, roads and railroads to the far corners of
the country. What resulted from this was a huge amount of forced
labour and shipping off large parts of the population to the
notorious gulags. The Soviet Union, which spent a couple of decades
dying in the 1970' and 80's, breathed its last gasp in 1991, and a
1%/99% form of capitalism took over. Many saw it as a new
revolution: out with the authoritarian state; in with freedom. But
it didn't work that way. When I was there in 1995, the oligarchs
looked after themselves at the top and "mafias" looked after
themselves at the bottom. Everyone between lived in a state of
poverty and chaos. What Russia demonstrated both in 1917 and 1991
was that people do have to be very careful in what they wish for.
Personally, I see improvement in the lives of the 99% happening not
through revolution but little by little. Though the road has not
been easy, a considerable part of the world has come a long way in
the provision of education and health care and in looking after the
unemployed and the indigent. Often, it has been a process of one
step forward and two steps backward but things have generally moved
in a positive direction. However, we do have a long way to go. Much
still needs to be done.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Harrell <mailto:[email protected]>
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
Years ago the great English Diction coach Dorothy Uris was hired
to go to the Soviet Union to teach English Diction to the
Bolshoi. She was one my mentors at Manhattan School of
Music. When she came back we had dinner and she spoke about
what she had learned by about their Communism. She had gotten
ill while there and was treated by their medical system.
She was assigned a person to care for her other than the hospital
staff. A person who brought her tea, chatted and generally kept
her spirits up. She looked at me and said surprisingly, they
are a country that has decided to do without wealthy folks.
She said that once they retired they had the same as everyone
else. Whether they liked that or not has been the discussion
here about dachas and privileges but there is a funny anecdote
here. I remember Nancy Reagan saying at the Hermitage that she
understood the revolution against such opulence in the face of
such poverty. Today I tried to find the quote and found
another that said the opposite. Strange! Memory is not always
correct but it came in the midst of questions about American
Indians from Russian Students and silly statements by Reagan. I
remember thinking that Nancy had gotten it but then it seems she
didn't. Or maybe, like at other times, it was changed.
Meanwhile Dorothy felt that they had less technological medical
facilities but more human and felt that they were healing of
her. She also understood the power of beurocracy and its
inertia although she was impressed with the power of the Soviet
Performing Arts. Something that Americas were taught as being
staid, threadbare and oppressive. We've seen the lie of that in
the Soviet Artists here in America who came from that system.
Still Civil Servants and human competitiveness are powerful
problems for all governments to solve and make work.
REH
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of
michael gurstein
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:29 PM
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK,
INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] RE: Will it ever happen?
I think that one of the major problems/failings in thinking about
"revolution" is to see the desireable outcome as an end
state--equality of all, etc.etc. Rather the most desireably
outcome of a revolution would be a process... a becoming ... a
process of enablement, of empowerment, of achieving rather than
of achievement... When seen in that light we can discuss partial
"revolutions", localized "revolutions", and so on... The critique
of the 1% then becomes not a critique of who they are or what
they own but rather how their control prevents processes of
enablement/empowerment/realization to occur.
M
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Ed Weick
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK,
INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
Subject: Re: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
Not quite sure of what I mean. The idea of a revolution is to
transcend the miserable state a people are in and to create a
much better and more egalitarian world. But does it really ever
happen? The Enlightenment led to the French Revolution, huge head
choppings, and the Napoleonic Wars. The Russian revolution
resulted in the hugely repressive Stalinist state. The American
Revolution has resulted in the 99% vs. the 1%. The ideals of
Chairman Mao have led to repressive state capitalism. What I'm
trying to say is what John Gray said far better than I could in
his "Black Mass" -- revolutionary ideals never turn out the way
they were supposed to, and do be careful what you wish for.
What, for example, should the 99% vs. the 1% result in? Even if
major reforms were instituted, it would probably not go much
further than 98% vs. 2%. A happy 100% egalitarian world is a
complete fantasy. The reason I used a quote from the 1970's and
one from this year is to demonstrate that things haven't really
changed very much. It was hippies then, occupiers now.
Yours from the dark side,
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Cordell <mailto:[email protected]>
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION'
<mailto:[email protected]> ;
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 1:09 PM
Subject: [Ottawadissenters] RE: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
Not to be too trite, but what do you mean by "will anything
ever really happen?"
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of
Ed Weick
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 12:43 PM
To: 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION';
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [Futurework] Will it ever happen?
A couple of quotes:
THE REVOLUTION of the twentieth century will take place in
the United States. It is only there that it can happen. And
it has already begun. 'Whether or not that revolution spreads
to the rest of the world depends on whether or not it
succeeds first in America.
I am not unaware of the shock and incredulity such statements
may cause at every level of the European Left and among the
nations of the Third World. I know it is difficult to believe
that Americathe fatherland of imperialism, the power
responsible for the war in Vietnam, the nation of Joe
McCarthy's witch hunts, the exploiter of the world's natural
resourcesis, or could become, the cradle of revolution.
(Jean Francois Revel, Without Marx or Jesus, the new American
revolution has begun, 1970)
The Occupy movements are the physical embodiment of hope.
They returned us to a world where empathy is a primary
attribute. They defied the profit-driven hierarchical
structures of corporate capitalism. They know hope has a
cost, that it is not easy or comfortable, that it requires
self-sacrifice and discomfort and finally faith. In Zuccotti
Park and throughout the they slept on concrete every night.
Their clothes were soiled. They ate more bagels and peanut
butter than they ever thought possible. They tasted fear,
were beaten, went to jail, were blinded by pepper spray,
cried, hugged each laughed, sung, talked too long in general
assemblies, saw their chants drift upward to the office
towers above them, wondered if it is worth it, if anyone
cared if they would win. (Chris Hedges and Joe Sacco, Days
of Destruction, Days of Revolt, 2012)
A question:
Hope does seem to spring eternal in the revolutionary breast,
but will anything ever really happen?
Ed
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