No, "Arabs" have plenty of courage and forethought (witness the resistance of the Palestinians to the brutal occupation of Palestine). The only question I addressed was whether Usama bin Laden and al-Qaida were responsible for the September 11 attacks.
If they are not -- and I think that they are probably not -- then there are several other plausible suspects, including individual groups acting alone, groups allied together, and groups in which some are masterminds and the others are dupes. I think the circumstantial evidence points more towards some than others, but am not aware of any evidence that determines the matter. Cheers, Lawry On Aug 3, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Ray Harrell wrote: > Lawry, Natasha, > > Are you saying the Arabs didn't have the courage or the forethought to plan > such a thing? It does sound stupid to place the American Nuclear gun sites > on Mecca and Medina. If they didn't do it, why take the chance that > America would mount an immediate nuclear response on Mecca as they had > targeted the Soviet Union? That would speak against whosama taking credit > unless they were just macho psychopaths Maybe Whosama was trying to ruin > his father who rebuilt Mecca? > > Such layered reality suggests almost anything and such a reality means that > almost anything said has another possibility. The simplest is probably the > answer. Take for example the symmetrical descent of the two towers. No > one has taken that architectural tube structure down before. It's unique > structure could just be the way that falls when all of the building supports > are in the sheath of the building. There was no core to break up the > symmetricallity. The special sheath strength was a new factor for > demolition. Who knows? > > As for the locals doing it? To what purpose would you destroy the brain of > the world Financial System? It's more likely that the little guys in the > Windows on the World who went to Mosque in Queens just got spooked by Thomas > Barnett and his breakfast discussions between the war college, the pentagon > and the huge trading partner Cantor Fitzgerald, Inc. who were planning the > future of the Middle East including using the American War Machine. This > is not news. Barnett was giving lectures on it on C-Span at the Navy War > College and writing about it in, I believe it was the Atlantic Magazine. > I asked Barnett about the kitchen help at the Windows and he basically > admitted that he hadn't thought about it. So much for security! I saw a > new restaurant opened by the chefs from the Windows after the fall of the > Towers. The ones who hadn't been on duty on 9/11. It included Islamic > chefs. That Mosque in Queens tried once and their Mullah is still in > jail for it. What makes you think that they would go quietly into the > night if they heard a powerful planner/instigator like Barnett was planning > on behalf of the government with the corporation that had more money going > through it in one year than the entire U.S. economy? (Barnett's claim on > C-Span) Alternate scenarios is what I do for a living. It's called > opera. > > REH > > > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of de Bivort Lawrence > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 7:25 AM > To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION > Subject: Re: [Futurework] It's always been Eastasia > > You are right, Natalia, there is no evidence that Usama bin Laden carried out > or planned the September 11 attacks. There is considerable circumstantial > evidence that he did not. > > There is evidence that after the attacks, Usama bin Laden and key al-Qaida > leaders, already accused of carrying out the attacks, decided in a number of > ways to embrace and exploit the accusation to advance their general purposes. > > There was tremendous and understandable pressure on the US intelligence > agencies to identify the culprit. Usama bin Laden and al-Qaida were obvious > suspects, had already engineered comparable attacks in the past, and made for > plausible culprits. Some of the people who pointed the finger at al-Qaida > privately felt that if it was not responsible for September 11, it deserved > on the basis of its previous attacks to be nailed for September 11. Others > felt that it would be useful to correctly identify the real culprits, and yet > others who agreed that it was not al-Qaida felt that it would not be useful > -- for any of several reason -- to identify the real culprits. > > I offer no speculation as to who did it, nor have I studied the myriad > conspiracy theories that do so. I guess that the myth will control the > public history of the matter. > > Cheers, > Lawry > > > > On Aug 2, 2012, at 2:58 PM, D & N wrote: > > > Mike, > > As mentioned at the end of my reply to Keith, I was drawing attention to the > Al Qaeda/US associations of convenience and inconvenience, which is > conspiratorial in nature. > > I have never believed, nor have I read nor seen anything one could call > incontrovertible evidence of Bin Laden's guilt. I agree with your point > below, and would add that I find it particularly annoying that all media > sources these days make the same presumption based on popular belief derived > from propaganda. The acceptance of this single fabrication gave licence to > all other lies around 9/11 and the two oil wars that followed. > > Natalia > > On 01/08/2012 10:24 PM, Mike Spencer wrote: > Natalia wrote: > > Conspiracy theory debunkers-- cover your eyes. > Maybe I haven't been paying attention. After all, there's been > gigabytes of stuff written and said about 9/11 in the last decade, > much of it obviously totally crackpot in character. I haven't read > most of it and I haven't watched dozens (or hundreds) of hours of TV > "news" and punditry. > > But remind me: just when was it conclusively established the bin Laden > was responsible for the attack? Immediately after the attack, he was > quoted in the press as saying [1]: > > I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United > States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a > government within a government within the United States. The > United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these > attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the > present century a century of conflict between Islam and > Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who > carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in > control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the > United States. -- Osama bin Laden (Reported by BBC) > > I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September > attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to > avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor > do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other > humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing > harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a > practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle. > -- Osama bin Laden (Sep 2001) > > AFAIK, he never contradicted that position. > > The usual rule is that the perpetrators of political violence, whether > terror, assassination or whatever, seek credit for the victory over the > hated foe. > > So: was there ever anything conclusive that fingered ObL? Or is "ObL > done it" something that Everybody Knows [2] and I should just feel, > you know, humiliated and inadequate because I don't know it also? > > > - Mike > > > [1] I don't have exact references to cite. You can probably google key > phrases and find them. > > [2] A case of epistemological engineering? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
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