No, "Arabs" have plenty of courage and forethought (witness the resistance of 
the Palestinians to the brutal occupation of Palestine). The only question I 
addressed was whether Usama bin Laden and al-Qaida were responsible for the 
September 11 attacks.

If they are not -- and I think that they are probably not -- then there are 
several other plausible suspects, including individual groups acting alone, 
groups allied together, and groups in which some are masterminds and the others 
are dupes.

I think the circumstantial evidence points more towards some than others, but 
am not aware of any evidence that determines the matter.

Cheers,
Lawry


On Aug 3, 2012, at 9:32 AM, Ray Harrell wrote:

> Lawry, Natasha,
>  
> Are you saying the Arabs didn't have the courage or the forethought to plan 
> such a thing?   It does sound stupid to place the American Nuclear gun sites 
> on Mecca and Medina.    If they didn't do it, why take the chance that 
> America would mount an immediate nuclear response on Mecca as they had 
> targeted the Soviet Union? That would speak against whosama taking credit 
> unless they were just macho psychopaths   Maybe Whosama was trying to ruin 
> his father who rebuilt Mecca?   
>  
> Such layered reality suggests almost anything and such a reality means that 
> almost anything said has another possibility.    The simplest is probably the 
> answer.    Take for example the symmetrical descent of the two towers.    No 
> one has taken that architectural tube structure down before.   It's unique 
> structure could just be the way that falls when all of the building supports 
> are in the sheath of the building.    There was no core to break up the 
> symmetricallity.    The special sheath strength was a new factor for 
> demolition.  Who knows?
>  
> As for the locals doing it?   To what purpose would you destroy the brain of 
> the world Financial System?    It's more likely that the little guys in the 
> Windows on the World who went to Mosque in Queens just got spooked by Thomas 
> Barnett and his breakfast discussions between the war college, the pentagon 
> and the huge trading partner Cantor Fitzgerald, Inc. who were planning the 
> future of the Middle East including using the American War Machine.     This 
> is not news.   Barnett was giving lectures on it on C-Span at the Navy War 
> College and writing about it in, I believe it was the Atlantic Magazine.     
> I asked Barnett about the kitchen help at the Windows and he basically 
> admitted that he hadn't thought about it.    So much for security!    I saw a 
> new restaurant opened by the chefs from the Windows after the fall of the 
> Towers.  The ones who hadn't been on duty on 9/11.    It included Islamic 
> chefs.     That Mosque in  Queens tried once and their Mullah is still in 
> jail for it.     What makes you think that they would go quietly into the 
> night if they heard a powerful planner/instigator like Barnett was planning 
> on behalf of the government with the corporation that had more money going 
> through it in one year than the entire U.S. economy?  (Barnett's claim on 
> C-Span)     Alternate scenarios is what I do for a living.   It's called 
> opera.
>  
> REH
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of de Bivort Lawrence
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 7:25 AM
> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION
> Subject: Re: [Futurework] It's always been Eastasia
>  
> You are right, Natalia, there is no evidence that Usama bin Laden carried out 
> or planned the September 11 attacks. There is considerable circumstantial 
> evidence that he did not.
>  
> There is evidence that after the attacks, Usama bin Laden and key al-Qaida 
> leaders, already accused of carrying out the attacks, decided in a number of 
> ways to embrace and exploit the accusation to advance their general purposes.
>  
> There was tremendous and understandable pressure on the US intelligence 
> agencies to identify the culprit. Usama bin Laden and al-Qaida were obvious 
> suspects, had already engineered comparable attacks in the past, and made for 
> plausible culprits. Some of the people who pointed the finger at al-Qaida 
> privately felt that if it was not responsible for September 11, it deserved 
> on the basis of its previous attacks to be nailed for September 11. Others 
> felt that it would be useful to correctly identify the real culprits, and yet 
> others who agreed that it was not al-Qaida felt that it would not be useful 
> -- for any of several reason -- to identify the real culprits.
>  
> I offer no speculation as to who did it, nor have I studied the myriad 
> conspiracy theories that do so.  I guess that the myth will control the 
> public history of the matter.
>  
> Cheers,
> Lawry
>  
>  
>  
> On Aug 2, 2012, at 2:58 PM, D & N wrote:
> 
> 
> Mike, 
> 
> As mentioned at the end of my reply to Keith, I was drawing attention to the 
> Al Qaeda/US associations of convenience and inconvenience, which is 
> conspiratorial in nature.
> 
> I have never believed, nor have I read nor seen anything one could call 
> incontrovertible evidence of Bin Laden's guilt. I agree with your point 
> below, and would add that I find it particularly annoying that all media 
> sources these days make the same presumption based on popular belief derived 
> from propaganda. The acceptance of this single fabrication gave licence to 
> all other lies around 9/11 and the two oil wars that followed. 
> 
> Natalia
> 
> On 01/08/2012 10:24 PM, Mike Spencer wrote:
> Natalia wrote:
>  
> Conspiracy theory debunkers-- cover your eyes.
> Maybe I haven't been paying attention. After all, there's been
> gigabytes of stuff written and said about 9/11 in the last decade,
> much of it obviously totally crackpot in character. I haven't read
> most of it and I haven't watched dozens (or hundreds) of hours of TV
> "news" and punditry.
>  
> But remind me: just when was it conclusively established the bin Laden
> was responsible for the attack?  Immediately after the attack, he was
> quoted in the press as saying [1]:
>  
>        I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United
>        States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks.  There exists a
>        government within a government within the United States. The
>        United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these
>        attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the
>        present century a century of conflict between Islam and
>        Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who
>        carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in
>        control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the
>        United States.         -- Osama bin Laden (Reported by BBC)
>  
>        I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September
>        attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to
>        avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor
>        do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other
>        humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing
>        harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a
>        practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.
>                                -- Osama bin Laden (Sep 2001)
>  
> AFAIK, he never contradicted that position.
>  
> The usual rule is that the perpetrators of political violence, whether
> terror, assassination or whatever, seek credit for the victory over the
> hated foe.
>  
> So: was there ever anything conclusive that fingered ObL?  Or is "ObL
> done it" something that Everybody Knows [2] and I should just feel,
> you know, humiliated and inadequate because I don't know it also?
>  
>  
> - Mike
>  
>  
> [1] I don't have exact references to cite. You can probably google key
>     phrases and find them.
>  
> [2] A case of epistemological engineering?
>  
>  
>  
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