Greetings, Thanks for your email, Viggo.
In case I miscommunicated: I don't think the bin Laden/BBC quote smells. In fact, it is entirely compatible with many other statements he has made. And, also, I think it reflects accurately his actual views. I only was hoping to receive the BBC citation. On Aug 4, 2012, at 2:53 PM, Viggo Andersen wrote: A "secret government in the US"? I would speculate that the most secret influencer of the US government is a subset of the extremely wealthy. There are some 400 billionaires in the US. Let's say that a quarter of them are willing to use illegal, or underhanded, or secretive methods to cause the US to pass policies that are in their interests and in effect against the interests of the rest of the American people. 100 billionaires adds up to a lot of power, especially when well-organized and acting in concert with one another. I see Mr. Romney as one of their tools, the Billionaires Boy. Yes, I would say that a disproportionate number of senior government officials are Jewish, but this is due more, in my opinion, to the superior education and interest in public affairs that Jews in the US have. And yes, some of these -- the neocons that I mentioned before -- have put Israeli interests before US ones. However, I would also say that the majority of senior government officials who are Jewish who I know are honest, smart, hard-working, and pro-American. Many of these are quite critical of Israel and are not naive about the nefarious effects that the pro-Israeli/Likkudist ones have on US policy, and not naive about how these pro-Likkudist supporters are actually harming the medium- and long-term prospects of Israel. I mentioned the neocons that swept into influential positions in the Bush administration, and should have added that the Democrats, and now Obama are not free of neocon appointments, and these are having a harmful impact on Obama's efforts in the Middle East and on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. And of course there are perhaps a dozen people in the US Senate and Congress who are unabashed Likkudists and are doing great harm to US policy in those areas and costing the US a lot of money and international credibility. Sometimes these are referred to as "Israel-Firsters." So with regard to a secret government, I would say that there are many secretive interest groups, and that no one has a lock on the government. AIPAC, the Likkudist lobbying organization in the US is among the most powerful of these, but I think ultimately they do more harm to Israeli interest than good. I'm sorry you had so much heartbreak with your Israeli girlfriend. Of course, I don't know what happened in this sad situation, but would offer softly the suggestion that it may fall more into the normal sometimes ugly domain of male-female relations than it has anything to do with her being Jewish.... My apologies, Viggo, if this is too personal a comment. I like your phrasing -- If you treat someone like an enemy, pretty soon they will become one. Relationships do have a symmetry to them. Cheers, Lawry > At 11:37 04-08-2012 -0400, you wrote: >> Greetings, Viggo >> >> Quick thoughts and questions re. the points you bring up: >> >> 1. Do you have a citation for the BBC report, especially the date? I have a >> pretty extensive collection of UbL statements and interviews, but not this >> very interesting one. > > I only know about it from the list. Are we closing in on fraudulent > conspiracy evidence? Is that what it smells of to high heaven? > >> 2. At the time of the September 11 attacks, and generally under the Bush >> administration, US foreign policy was under the control of what we call the >> US neocons. About 80% of the most influential neocons are Jewish. This does >> NOT mean that they put US interests second to their perception of Israel's >> interest. Rather, one has to look at the positions that they advocated and >> implemented and decide whether those policies were in the best interest of >> the US. And while it is possible to be very critical of those policies -- >> impacts of which we are still paying for today -- we have to consider that >> nonetheless the American neocons in positions of responsibility to the US >> thought that what they were doing was in the US interest. And this leads us >> into the very interesting relationship between the US neocons and the Likkud >> party. Anyway, this is a long and complex story. > > It goes without saying that as a Dane I don't take much interest in > American politics. But here I find it more necessary to use the > phrase "Keep the eye on the ball" and then ask the question: Who or > what is the ball to keep an eye on? > > If we are to talk conspiracy, then my ball is the conspiracists. They > are far outside of the meaning of the word politics, and they have > an agenda of their own, which is anti-government. > > And now I wonder how the "secret government" in the US is supposed to be > perceived? As consisting of 100% neocon Jews?? If it's 80% out in the > open for everybody to know about in plain normal politics? > >> Unfortunately, because Israel is so readily and automatically called "the >> Jewish State," it has been easy for too many analysts and observers to >> confuse "Israeli" with "Jewish." When Israel was viewed, rightly or >> wrongly, as a heroic and moral state, this redounded to the benefit of >> "Jews" worldwide. But now that Israel's behavior is coming under heavy and >> deep criticism, rightly or wrongly, "Jews worldwide are being identified >> with this behavior. This is, in my opinion, very unfortunate. The growing >> insistence among Likkudists on the identical identity of "Jews" and "Israel" >> suggests that this situation will become worse: criticism of Israel is >> identified as "anti-semitic" by the Likkudists, and by anti-semites, all >> Jews are being blamed for the actions and characteristics of Israel. In >> this lies a tragedy in the making. > > I did not see this coming. If it hadn't been for her parents I would, as > far as anybody can know, have married an Jewish/Israeli penpal in 1969 after > her 2 year draft service and after a couple of years with her here in Denmark > have moved with her to Israel for good. > > In early June 1967 I was returning home from Sweden to be met on the railway > station of a newspaper poster about war having broken out down there. What > to do, I decided to go forward with my plan to hitch-hike through Europe to > visit her. I stayed with her, her parents and her brother for 3 weeks. The > only effect of the war for their village had been a rocket hitting a water > tower that had been taken out of use long ago. Her parents were both > Holocaust survivors, her mother a Russian having fled 3000 km to survive, > her father was in Poland, but apparently he never ever talked about his > experiences. The daughter born 1946, conceived while Hitler was still alive! > There is something about that, which I still don't know and would love to > find out: Where were they, what were they thinking, how could they already > have been married, and what did he have to do to survive, is that why he > never talked about it, he was ashamed of it and didn't want anybody to know > about it (I know a thing or two from survivor interviews, that's why I > suspect it). > > So suddenly this hits close to home here. In late 2009 I decided to try to > track her down, and when 2-3 months of searching the net had let to nothing > I got the idea, I have to hire a gumshoe, I can't do it alone, so I paid > an agency in Israel. That cost me some $1300, and after a couple of false > leads they came up with the right one, and I had my first phone talk ever > with her in January 2010. After 2 months and 1 week I had to give up having > any more contact with her ever again. She remembered nothing whatsoever > since opening the door for me in her parents house or the remaining 15 > months of our past relationship and refused to take it seriously! One night > after having tried for a couple of weeks to beg and plead and threaten her > to see a therapist I simply deleted my Skype connection to her and the > Gmail account I had been using. > > I didn't bother to email her first. I'd rather defend myself against a > rabies-infected dog than her and her now both dead parents. I thought I > owed her to find her again for her fights with her parents for 15 months > about marrying me. I had done that, it was all for nothing for the > second time with her attacking and insulting me in defensiveness about > her parents (!), so enough already, I owe her nothing anymore. > > Lawry, as coincidence would have it you used the word for it right below > here: dysfunctional! That's her and her family with her brother being a > possible exception, but whether he is or not I have no way of knowing. > Obviously I wasn't visiting him in 1967, and he wasn't much around in > the house anyway, so I've never had much of an impression of him. > > So yes, I know something about Israel and Israelis. I have had to. > > Oops, I got your paragraph moved all the way to the left here: > ====== > 3. Much of American politics -- and I am not sure how far back this goes, but > it could be argued that it goes back to the first European settlers in > America -- is based upon having at hand an existential and demonized enemy. > The British, the Spaniards, the Native Americans, the Chinese, the > communists, Islam have all been systematically and dysfunctionally identified > by main-stream Americans (with the focused goading of parts of the press, big > business, politicians, etc.) as a massive, powerful existential enemy. Given > the habituation of the American people to this kind of thinking, it is not > hard to line up a "new" enemy whenever one is needed by this os that interest > group. > > And now me: Yes, I'm aware of that, of course. But on the other hand, > if you treat someone as the new enemy even just in national politics > you are going to get one, the same one. You're stepping on corns, > and they don't appreciate it. They want you off, even if they have to > shoot you a bullet between the eyes first. So to speak. Isn't that > what 9/11 was all about? Is there anything implausible about it? > Americans don't just get out of their country as tourists. They have > armed forces all around the globe. It's gotta piss somebody mightily > off once in a while. > >> But of course, this is a two-edged sword, as today's "ally" can become >> easily become tomorrow's "enemy." >> >> 4. I am not aware of any scientist who fell for Geller. Specifically, I know >> that the scientists at Stanford Research Institute who spent quite a bit of >> time testing Geller through many tries ended up merely insisting that it was >> impossible from their study to conclude that Geller was doing any of any >> scientific validity, and that somehow every time he showed up to be put >> through an experimental protocol he refused to stay within the protocol. >> They terminated the study when they concluded that Geller was doing this >> deliberately. > > Hmm - some of it I remember now that you say it. I remember vividly how > he was. Am I mistaken about the scientific validation from at least one > physicist, or do I mix it up with something else? I would have to dig > deep into my archives to find out. I had to jump to welfare issues instead > in late 1998, so it's a really long time since I've been involved in that > stuff. I have a habit of checking and re-checking, but it didn't occur to > me that I might not remember correctly about Uri Geller. > >> I hope these observations are of interest. > > Absolutely, Lawry! Not the least the Geller business. But I don't mind being > filled in about something I don't take primary interest in. The neocon perc. > Jews I didn't know about, but hey, that's the name of the game, you can't > know everything about everything before uttering an opinion. > > Viggo. >
_______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
