Lawry, as to "Or an interpersonal level, Israelis and Palestinians (and Arabs/Muslims) generally can get along fairly easily. Indeed I know of many deep and lasting friendships between them, including marriages."
Where have they settled down, married couples? I have a YouTube video about Israeli/Palestinian couple Jasmin Avissar and Osama Zatar from November 2008, German tv. They had to move to Germany to be able to live together. I also know about groups in Israel of psychologists or what they were doing "intervention" actions to "save" Israeli girls from their Palestinian boyfriends. Viggo. At 08:25 06-08-2012 -0400, de Bivort Lawrence wrote: >Good morning, Keith. Yes, Muslims view Jews, Christians (broadly defined) and >Muslims all as "Ahl al-Kitab" -- People of the Book. All the early converts to >Islam were, of course, Jewish, Christian, or pan- and polytheistic. Converting >to Islam was not difficult for Jews and Christians, as they and Muslims have >the same god. So conversion simply meant understanding that Muhammad was the >most recent of the prophets/messengers/ sent by God/Yahweh/Allah, and taking >the Qur'an as the last and literal message/voice of Allah. If you will, you >can think of Muhammad and the Quran as the 'latest edition.' > >Would you say more about the effect of Sunni-Shi'a tension on >Muslim-non-Muslim relations? Thanks. > >My sense is, and this summarizes many disparate conversations with >Arabs/Muslims about Israel, is not that Israeli technological and scientific >success provokes them against Israel, but that the seizure of Palestine; the >current onerous and murderous occupation; the Israeli black ops against Arabs >and Muslim countries; and the 1948, 1956, and 1967 wars are the cause of such >anger at Israel. > >Israel's technological succes is something that many Palestinians, Arabs and >Muslims admire, though the relative debauchery of some segments of the Israeli >Jewish population do not. Of course, the Arabs have their own record of >world-class debauchery among some of their elites -- a source of considerable >resentment and contempt among the general population. > >Or an interpersonal level, Israelis and Palestinians (and Arabs/Muslims) >generally can get along fairly easily. Indeed I know of many deep and lasting >friendships between them, including marriages. > >Cheers, >Lawry > > >On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:11 AM, Keith Hudson wrote: > >>Muhammad enjoined his followers to treat Jews and Christians with respect, as >>fellow believers in the Bible (that is, the old testament) and partners of >>the Abrahamic line. What has coloured Muslim's attitude to non-Muslims is a >>byproduct of the growing overlay of antipathy between the Sunnis and Shias of >>their own faith. Also, I feel sure that the scientific and technological >>successes of Israel in recent years, rather than its mere existence, have >>been provocative. >> >>Keith >> >>At 20:53 05/08/2012, Arthur wrote: >>>Just to provide some more perspective on the very unstable middle east. >>> >>> >>> >>>Israel, the Arab worlds all-purpose enemy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>><http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/author/gjonasnp/>George Jonas | >>> >>>Aug 4, 2012 6:01 AM ET | >>> >>>Last Updated: Aug 4, 2012 9:48 AM ET >>> >>>National Post >>> >>>And how is the Arab Spring? Well, theres bad news, and good news. The bad >>>news is that since the beginning of the phenomenon that has been discussed >>>more and understood less than any in recent years, hostility to Israel in >>>the region has only increased. The good news is that while the appetite to >>>harm the Jewish state and its inhabitants has grown in the Arab/Muslim world >>>since the fall of Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia launched what was >>>supposed to be the regions democratic renewal, the capacity to do so has >>>diminished. >>> >>>An increase in hostility was predictable. Hatred against Israel, kept on a >>>low boil, is the organizing principle of the Middle East. Its the regions >>>main fuel of governance; often its only fuel. Some ruling regimes kings, >>>dictators, whatever may have oil wells and sandy beaches, but other than >>>hating Israel (and looking after their families and tribes) they have few if >>>any ideas. If they do, chances are its to hate some other group in addition >>>to Israel. >>> >>>In the Middle East a countrys national purpose often amounts to little more >>>than a list of its enemies. A feeling of being ill-done by dominates the >>>consciousness of groups and individuals. Since its a self-fulfilling >>>prophecy, its not necessarily baseless: The easiest way to have an enemy is >>>to be one. >>> >>>The centrality of hatred to the culture is remarkable. The Cartesian idea is >>>I hate, therefore I am. Self-righteousness is overwhelming: each desire >>>thwarted becomes an example of justice denied. Its not a pretty place, but >>>millions call it home. >>> >>>In many ways, Israel is a godsend to the one-trick ponies who rule the >>>region. Their culture defines ruling as inoculating your own sect or tribe >>>against all others, including the ones that form your own country. Many >>>Middle East nations Iraq, Syria, Libya, to name three are just >>>temporarily halted civil wars. Theyre truces rather than countries. Canada >>>may be two solitudes, but it isnt an uneasy truce between French and >>>English Canadians. Iraq is, between Shia and Sunni Muslims. >>> >>>In such an ambiance, nothing is handier than an all-purpose enemy, just out >>>of reach, close enough to seem a realistic threat but too far to be one. >>>Tyrants can govern by whipping up enough popular sentiment against the >>>Jewish state to give their regimes an apparent national purpose and distract >>>peoples attention from domestic woes, then relax and spend some money in >>>the capitals of Europe. >>> >>>The key is a low boil, though. If the anti-Israeli sentiment boils over, >>>causing riots against the government for being too soft on the Zionists, or >>>foolish attempts to attack Haifa with rockets, which in turn invites >>>retaliation, the peoples hatred of Israel becomes a headache for the very >>>rulers who instigated it. >>> >>>Yeah, well, it couldnt happen to a nicer bunch, somebody might say, Ill >>>lose no sleep over it. He should, though, because its like pulling a >>>thread from a piece of fabric. Things can unravel in an instant. >>> >>>Tyranny, Egyptian-style, under Hosni Mubarak or Libyan-style, under Muammar >>>Gaddafi, often manifested itself in dictatorial governments balancing on a >>>tightrope, trying to maintain a fragile peace with Israel against their own >>>bellicose people, trying to counteract the effects of the sentiments they >>>themselves instigated. When they couldnt, the forces they helped conjure up >>>turned against them. If lucky, they died in a hail of bullets on the >>>reviewing stand like Anwar Sadat; if not, bludgeoned like a cornered rat in >>>a culvert, in the manner of Gaddafi. Its a fate Bashar al-Assad has been >>>trying to avoid, which is hardly surprising. >>> >>>Assad has threatened to rain missiles down on Tel Aviv should NATO try to >>>dislodge him, as >>><http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/how-the-arab-spring-keeps-israel-safe-7268>Michael >>> Koplow put it in the National Interest, but in fact Syrias tyrant has been >>>raining missiles (and if not missiles, then shells and bullets) on his own >>>towns and villages. No wonder, for thats where his enemies live his >>>actual enemies, as opposed to his mythical ones. Its his fellow Syrians who >>>want to trap him in a culvert and drown him, preferably along with his >>>entire tribe. Israel has no interest in touching him with a 10-foot pole, >>>especially as long as hes keeping Syrias armed forces and rebels thinning >>>each others ranks. >>> >>>We wont understand much about the Arab Spring as long as we persist in >>>looking at it through Western eyes. We see popular uprisings against >>>dictatorships as moves in the direction of Western-style democracy. If they >>>happened here, they probably would be. Where theyre actually happening >>>theyre taking their societies in the opposite direction. >>> >>>The Arab Spring is an attempt to return the region to its roots. Its not to >>>Westernize the Middle East and make it more democratic; its to Easternize >>>it and make it more Islamic. If the early 20th century was about the East >>>trying to join what it couldnt lick, the early 21st may be about the East >>>trying to lick what it hasnt been able to join. >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Futurework mailing list >>><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >>Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Futurework mailing list >><mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > >_______________________________________________ >Futurework mailing list >[email protected] >https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
