At 10:19 06-08-2012 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, Viggo, > >Yes, the occupation regime puts many obstacles int he way of couples >who want to marry in Israel/Palestine, and even between Palestinians >who are living within the boundary of Israel, and those living on the >West Bank or Gaza. (A wonderful movie: THE SYRIAN BRIDE who are >curious about one way in which it works (and in which good people from >all sides make it work.) But love has a way, and the obstacle are >often surmounted with tenacity and patience.
Thanks a lot, Lawry, I'll do everything in my power to track down that movie, which I had never heard about (oh, the sweet sweet blessing of the Internet! if it is anywhere in cyperspace I'll find it and get it.) Viggo. >Cheers, >Lawry > > >On Aug 6, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Viggo Andersen wrote: > >> Lawry, as to "Or an interpersonal level, Israelis and Palestinians >(and Arabs/Muslims) generally can get along fairly easily. Indeed I >know of many deep and lasting friendships between them, including marriages." >> >> Where have they settled down, married couples? I have a YouTube >> video about Israeli/Palestinian couple Jasmin Avissar and Osama >> Zatar from November 2008, German tv. They had to move to Germany >> to be able to live together. I also know about groups in Israel >> of psychologists or what they were doing "intervention" actions >> to "save" Israeli girls from their Palestinian boyfriends. >> >> Viggo. >> >> At 08:25 06-08-2012 -0400, de Bivort Lawrence wrote: >>> Good morning, Keith. Yes, Muslims view Jews, Christians (broadly >defined) and Muslims all as "Ahl al-Kitab" -- People of the Book. All >the early converts to Islam were, of course, Jewish, Christian, or >pan- and polytheistic. Converting to Islam was not difficult for Jews >and Christians, as they and Muslims have the same god. So conversion >simply meant understanding that Muhammad was the most recent of the >prophets/messengers/ sent by God/Yahweh/Allah, and taking the Qur'an >as the last and literal message/voice of Allah. If you will, you can >think of Muhammad and the Quran as the 'latest edition.' >>> >>> Would you say more about the effect of Sunni-Shi'a tension on >Muslim-non-Muslim relations? Thanks. >>> >>> My sense is, and this summarizes many disparate conversations with >Arabs/Muslims about Israel, is not that Israeli technological and >scientific success provokes them against Israel, but that the seizure >of Palestine; the current onerous and murderous occupation; the >Israeli black ops against Arabs and Muslim countries; and the 1948, >1956, and 1967 wars are the cause of such anger at Israel. >>> >>> Israel's technological succes is something that many Palestinians, >Arabs and Muslims admire, though the relative debauchery of some >segments of the Israeli Jewish population do not. Of course, the >Arabs have their own record of world-class debauchery among some of >their elites -- a source of considerable resentment and contempt among >the general population. >>> >>> Or an interpersonal level, Israelis and Palestinians (and >Arabs/Muslims) generally can get along fairly easily. Indeed I know of >many deep and lasting friendships between them, including marriages. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Lawry >>> >>> >>> On Aug 6, 2012, at 7:11 AM, Keith Hudson wrote: >>> >>>> Muhammad enjoined his followers to treat Jews and Christians with >respect, as fellow believers in the Bible (that is, the old testament) >and partners of the Abrahamic line. What has coloured Muslim's >attitude to non-Muslims is a byproduct of the growing overlay of >antipathy between the Sunnis and Shias of their own faith. Also, I >feel sure that the scientific and technological successes of Israel in >recent years, rather than its mere existence, have been provocative. >>>> >>>> Keith >>>> >>>> At 20:53 05/08/2012, Arthur wrote: >>>>> Just to provide some more perspective on the very unstable middle east. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Israel, the Arab worlds all-purpose enemy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/author/gjonasnp/>George Jonas | >>>>> >>>>> Aug 4, 2012 6:01 AM ET | >>>>> >>>>> Last Updated: Aug 4, 2012 9:48 AM ET >>>>> >>>>> National Post >>>>> >>>>> And how is the Arab Spring? Well, theres bad news, and good >news. The bad news is that since the beginning of the phenomenon that >has been discussed more and understood less than any in recent years, >hostility to Israel in the region has only increased. The good news is >that while the appetite to harm the Jewish state and its inhabitants >has grown in the Arab/Muslim world since the fall of Zine el-Abidine >Ben Ali in Tunisia launched what was supposed to be the regions >democratic renewal, the capacity to do so has diminished. >>>>> >>>>> An increase in hostility was predictable. Hatred against Israel, >kept on a low boil, is the organizing principle of the Middle East. >Its the regions main fuel of governance; often its only fuel. Some >ruling regimes kings, dictators, whatever may have oil wells and >sandy beaches, but other than hating Israel (and looking after their >families and tribes) they have few if any ideas. If they do, chances >are its to hate some other group in addition to Israel. >>>>> >>>>> In the Middle East a countrys national purpose often amounts to >little more than a list of its enemies. A feeling of being ill-done by >dominates the consciousness of groups and individuals. Since its a >self-fulfilling prophecy, its not necessarily baseless: The easiest >way to have an enemy is to be one. >>>>> >>>>> The centrality of hatred to the culture is remarkable. The >Cartesian idea is I hate, therefore I am. Self-righteousness is >overwhelming: each desire thwarted becomes an example of justice >denied. Its not a pretty place, but millions call it home. >>>>> >>>>> In many ways, Israel is a godsend to the one-trick ponies who >rule the region. Their culture defines ruling as inoculating your >own sect or tribe against all others, including the ones that form >your own country. Many Middle East nations Iraq, Syria, Libya, to >name three are just temporarily halted civil wars. Theyre truces >rather than countries. Canada may be two solitudes, but it isnt an >uneasy truce between French and English Canadians. Iraq is, between >Shia and Sunni Muslims. >>>>> >>>>> In such an ambiance, nothing is handier than an all-purpose >enemy, just out of reach, close enough to seem a realistic threat but >too far to be one. Tyrants can govern by whipping up enough popular >sentiment against the Jewish state to give their regimes an apparent >national purpose and distract peoples attention from domestic woes, >then relax and spend some money in the capitals of Europe. >>>>> >>>>> The key is a low boil, though. If the anti-Israeli sentiment >boils over, causing riots against the government for being too soft on >the Zionists, or foolish attempts to attack Haifa with rockets, which >in turn invites retaliation, the peoples hatred of Israel becomes a >headache for the very rulers who instigated it. >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, well, it couldnt happen to a nicer bunch, somebody might >say, Ill lose no sleep over it. He should, though, because its >like pulling a thread from a piece of fabric. Things can unravel in an instant. >>>>> >>>>> Tyranny, Egyptian-style, under Hosni Mubarak or Libyan-style, >under Muammar Gaddafi, often manifested itself in dictatorial >governments balancing on a tightrope, trying to maintain a fragile >peace with Israel against their own bellicose people, trying to >counteract the effects of the sentiments they themselves instigated. >When they couldnt, the forces they helped conjure up turned against >them. If lucky, they died in a hail of bullets on the reviewing stand >like Anwar Sadat; if not, bludgeoned like a cornered rat in a culvert, >in the manner of Gaddafi. Its a fate Bashar al-Assad has been trying >to avoid, which is hardly surprising. >>>>> >>>>> Assad has threatened to rain missiles down on Tel Aviv should >NATO try to dislodge him, as ><http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/how-the-arab-spring-keeps-isra>el-safe-7268>Michael > Koplow put it in the National Interest, but in >fact Syrias tyrant has been raining missiles (and if not missiles, >then shells and bullets) on his own towns and villages. No wonder, for >thats where his enemies live his actual enemies, as opposed to his >mythical ones. Its his fellow Syrians who want to trap him in a >culvert and drown him, preferably along with his entire tribe. Israel >has no interest in touching him with a 10-foot pole, especially as >long as hes keeping Syrias armed forces and rebels thinning each >others ranks. >>>>> >>>>> We wont understand much about the Arab Spring as long as we >persist in looking at it through Western eyes. We see popular >uprisings against dictatorships as moves in the direction of >Western-style democracy. If they happened here, they probably would >be. Where theyre actually happening theyre taking their societies in >the opposite direction. >>>>> >>>>> The Arab Spring is an attempt to return the region to its roots. >Its not to Westernize the Middle East and make it more democratic; >its to Easternize it and make it more Islamic. If the early 20th >century was about the East trying to join what it couldnt lick, the >early 21st may be about the East trying to lick what it hasnt been >able to join. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Futurework mailing list >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>>> >>>> Keith Hudson, Saltford, England http://allisstatus.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Futurework mailing list >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > >_______________________________________________ >Futurework mailing list >[email protected] >https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
