Let me get this right. You're saying that morality in humans, wolves and other mammals is mechanical and chemical?
If the mechanics fail the system crashes. And amongst humans its normal basis is not empathy and cooperation but external authority, right? "Domain" means territory so you can choose what you make of that. "Social" mean allies or relationship. "Social Domain Theory" is two types. One has to do with the pedagogy of morality, which doesn't make sense to you, if I understand you correctly. But you can google "Social Domain Theory" and find some good papers from universities around the country on that form. However, like term "complexity" there are different schools. My use of the term has to do with the "various requisite sectors of a functioning society" and how they are balanced. The Science Sector, Public Health, Religious, Artistic, Education, Trade and Governmental. In maturity, each Domain has all of the human tools and values of cooperation, but they all have different purposes and intentionality. The issue of integrity, cooperation and balance are essential for the mega system of the seven to "work." However, without all seven, a society is crippled. For example, Keith's post about the old folks is a demonstration of an immature public health sector since old folks are considered amongst indigenous societies to be their greatest resource due to experience and knowledge of the way things can and should be done. On the other hand, since capitalist society chooses to over develop competition, several of these domains are at war with each other in a cat fight over "truth." That's not a mature society. Indeed, the root definition of insane is "unbalanced." Different folks have written descriptions of the different Domains. There is a lot of writing about the Aesthetic Domain by practitioners. A magnificant treasure of work written from the time of Wagner to the present. The same is true of law and governing where the writing begins with the Greeks and the Jewish bible. Educational Domain theory fills thousands of libraries and Public Health, due to Obama, is on everyone's mind. Economics and Trade Domain theory occupies one whole wall in my musician's library as does the theory of religious foundations. The Domain of Science as a system has a wonderful department dedicated to the theory of the system of science at George Mason in Northern Virginia. I have a shelf on the Domain of Science since the theory of Domains must work across disciplines if it is a true generic Social Domain and the scientists often write the most clearly about basic principles. Indeed music theory in the late 19th century beginning with Heinrich Schenker was considered musical "science." In all of these categories, the basic structure and tools are generic. The specific purpose is not merely generic and is indeed professional. There's a lot of work on much of this that has also come out of the Sloan School at MIT. It crosses the boundaries of science and management and draws much of its resources in the works Schoen and Argyrus from practitioners in the arts. Because the principles travel well. I lectured on it for a couple of years at Columbia Teacher's College and for the last two years at the Jewish Theological Seminary here. Before that I taught a Singer's and Composer's Workshop in it from 1978 to 1986 and we developed operatic works using the theory. The point was to know why Art is important and why Opera is a crown jewel of western culture and essential to the maintenance of Western Identity. Since the eighties and through my work with John Warfield, who has published considerable materials on the Domain of Science, my understanding has deepened and I now see the roots of the incredible chaos we find ourselves within. I was mentored by John in my work but I would never call myself an expert on his work although he graciously collaborated with me on a conference prior to his illness and passing. My work is not science but the arts however, the foundations are generic and function as examples of differing emphasis, not differing worlds. As for mechanics and chemistry. Mechanics, genetics, epigentics etc. are important but they can't get you to Carnegie Hall or the Metropolitan Opera stage. Chemistry can make you feel like you could but it can't make you do what makes it possible for you to get there. Apply that to the professions of any of the domain's "systems of culture" and you have the same principle involved. Those druggies in the sixties didn't write good music although they understood that they could. Doing it was the same before and after the chemistry lesson and the endorphin high. As for Epigentics we should consider Lilli Lehman who claimed she never had an official lesson but was one of the world's greatest singers. Wikipedia now says that she had teachers but, like Rosa Ponselle and Leopold Godowsky she wanted you to think that she did it all as a gift of God or genetics. However, her mother and father were both great singers and her life, like mine in teaching, was one long 24 hour, seven days a week lesson. My old teacher Eva Turner had a "lesson" everyday for 25 years until her teacher/lover died. Teachers? Lovers? Parents? Just like JS Mill and his dad. Without the parents the epigenes would have just been pretty crystals on the greater crystal of the gene. The lessons of geology should not be forgotten here since geology gave the term to genetics. Now I have to go prepare a student for a Thursday audition on a premiere of a Baroque opera by Cavalli. Thanks for your answers and for your answers in advance. REH PS. Doesn't it ever bother you how the genetic and epigentic language resembles Blut über alles? As for Keith it seems terribly close to the Aristocratic story about "breeding." From: futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca [mailto:futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca] On Behalf Of Steve Kurtz Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:07 AM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] Orangutans found to plan, communicate future routes to plan, communicate future routes Orangutans found to plan, communicate future routes to plan, communicate future routes yellow> Re: Orangutans found to plan, communicate future routes My understanding: Morality is naturally selected, perhaps largely unconsciously, as is the behavior of wolf packs and other mammalian behavior. If the guidelines are faulty, they fail in the perpetuation of the species. Morality is consciously an evaluation done by humans which they normally ascribe to external absolutes. Most believe that their position is unquestionably correct. Yet many cultures disagree on some evaluations ( examples: women's rights, animal rights, ). If those are different "Social Domains" ( capitalized?) , then maybe I understand the term. Luck of time, place, parentage/peers is a major factor in fine tuning within the Bell Curve of natural behavior. Psychopaths are at one end, and current studies indicate genetic and chemical drivers. Steve On Sep 17, 2013, at 12:50 AM, Ray Harrell wrote: I reread what you wrote. From what you wrote, it all seems about moral flaws and luck. Social Domains. That's what it seems to me you are saying. If not then please tell me what you mean? I'm willing to listen. If you don't mean luck and immoral greed/power, then tell me what you mean and I will think on it.:>)) REH From: futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca [mailto:futurework-boun...@lists.uwaterloo.ca] On Behalf Of Steve Kurtz Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:14 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] <spamFilter -1.9 yellow> Re: Orangutans found to plan, communicate future routes to plan, communicate future routes Orangutans found to plan, communicate future routes to plan, communicate future routes On Sep 16, 2013, at 9:42 PM, Ray Harrell wrote: So Steve, are you saying that no one's responsible? I give up, Ray. You create stories that have no relation to what I write. What about that pedophile murderer in Switzerland? Huh? Society should do as other mammals do: take him out of the gene pool for the benefit of the species. What about Stalin? Hitler? Andrew Jackson? What goes around doesn't come around? There is no Karma? No cause and effect? Just uncertainty? Uncertainty vs absolute certainty does not relate to weight of the evidence given observation. I proceed according to my imperfect perceptions and evaluations. I may be wrong in judging outcomes. But I do NOT proclaim absolute justice, truth, beauty, precognition, etc. That makes science a joke. huh? Science IS UNCERTAINTY. Every position/theory is contingent. Do you mean that? You also said: ....I have said for decades that uncertainty is my position. But human perceptors are tuned to biological evolutionary results; they are limited in range and scope, even with technological aids. Reality is infinite until a boundary is evidenced. Ignorance is infinite. Making claims without evidence is infinite hubris or pure speculation. (maybe, but no cigar) ;-) Why do you think this is so special a thought? That is your statement, not mine. It is my view of reality. Yes human perception is limited. Yes it comes from growth and evolution. Yes technology is embodied so it's limited as well. No "reality" is not infinite but is a word. Show us a boundary, and then you claim of finitude will trump me. We can't even think infinity, omnipresent, omniscience or without end. You....can't We are limited. So? So, that limits our statements about reality. What we try to symbolize is bigger than we can think and it may be without end or not. Key word: try. Ignorance is not infinite since it dies with us. Wrong in my position. Thank God. Thank dog. The greatest hubris of all, is language where we claim to speak the truth. That is your game. But does that mean we should be mute? You attempt to force that position on al others, but not on yourself. Without relationship? Dialogue? The " other" is a social and biological necessity. We proceed interacting as we cannot do otherwise as a species. Why do you put words into my mouth that are your fiction? I believe the answer is found in groups and in intelligent machines projected from our psycho-physical reality so that we can interpret them. OK. But whatever the answer is to you is your evaluation, not an oracle. Why would you care that you are immature if you are? At 68? ;-) Stop the ad hominem. Maturity still comes Why would you care that you are incompetent if you are? We are all incompetent at many things/actions -imperfect and mortal... Learning is filled with endorphins and must have some meaning along with all of that pleasure. Life is material; glad to hear you agree..sometimes! ;-) Why would you care that your perceptions are limited if opening them up is done with the pleasure of Music, Art, Dance, Good food, Beautiful flowers, the Colors of Sunrise? Why would you care that you are a child "in comparison"? if you get to go to the party anyway? It matters not that we are meager, only that we help one another around our meagerness: to perceive, solve problems, heal and find meaning and significance at times when it isn't obvious. I left my home because people stopped me from my work and threatened things that would make my life meaningless. I found hope although I have no homeland. Sometimes it means more to sleep on the ground than to experience the finest mattress but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't search for human quality and help the world in our feeble fashion and try with all of our being to walk in beauty. Nothing between my last words and here in any way contradicts my position. Life is a process. We each value it a bit differently. Nature puts boundaries on us on Earth, and when we travel beyond it. But the boundary is our relation to it; Reality is still likely boundless- as no external boundary is known. Steve (SNIP)
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