Small segments only. The list is likely already bored. On Sep 20, 2013, at 12:53 AM, Ray Harrell wrote:
> I do not believe in free will, although I believe in responsibility of > actions to others (society, family...) as we are a social species and must > cooperate. > > I don't understand this statement. I don't get the logic. How can one be > responsible if one has no freedom of choice? A group is the unit here. (clan, tribe, wolf pack...) It has developed behavior patterns which increase group well being, The individual is readily corrected, coerced, or jettisoned if a threat. That is determined behavior, not individual free will. The responsibility is of the individual ( sub-unit) to the unit. It is conscious to the degree it has to be for the sub-unit to survive and thrive. It is not free from nature and nurture steering at all times in my view. > As for "social" I assume that all humans are inadequate on their own and that > cooperation is the closest we come to being smarter. The being "Social" in > a species is a result not a Foundation cause. Nature is the only foundational cause I recognize/understand. > It comes from perceiving your inadequacy and seeking rhythmic and otherwise > bonding through love. ala Shakespeare, not Freud. That is your view. Note: I am not inventing your views! I do *not* agree that most people are social due to "perceiving ..own inadequacy." I think that has been determined via selection over millennia. "Consciously, subjective evaluation" is blended with that to a degree? "that" is the social- the family, clan, tribe... In my view, morality/ethics and aesthetics are genetically limited (range) and social unit/sub-unit feedback processes. Does a baby with no perceptions exist as a self? Babies have experiences (perceptions?) before they are born in the views of many scientists. They may be unconscious, but the imprinting and epigenetics is ongoing from conception. As to "self", churches have argued about this re abortion. It is not answered objectively to the satisfaction of most people I know or have read. If you take all the perceptions away from an adult do they have the tools to make any judgments at all? The word we use is "coma." That is a thought experiment if about the vast majority, and not an exception of a neurologically damaged individual. It seems to me that aesthetic function is the beginning of everything through the act of patterning in all of the senses. You are certainly entitled to go with the evaluations you have made which match the views of certain other as well. That does not make them the correct, objective, or absolute truth. Philosophers and scientists argue about this stuff today, and I doubt that will stop in our lifetimes, if ever. My mistake, I thought you were trying to save the planet and convince people to change for the good of everyone. Well, around 20 years ago, maybe even 15, I had thoughts that my communications and actions might do some good. Alas, they have not. Now I interact largely for selfish personal needs driven by that social wiring I mentioned. ;-) Now I am gearing up to help our son and the twin grandsons by teaching them personal resilience and 'old skills' in rural Massachusetts. Fortunately they are near a cultural and intellectual center. https://www.fivecolleges.edu/ Be well. Steve ( no response needed; I cannot envision adding more clarity on my end)
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