Brian, I very much appreciate your support but I think your request of Ed that he not "rain on my parade" may be -well, I hope it's not condescending- I know you don't mean it to be- but Ed's response was an honest and respectful response with an honest question.
When I respond to such a post it helps me clarify what I am thinking and it is usually helpful. Selma ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian McAndrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > Hi Ed, > Faith inspired by love creates hope(and sometimes joy). Selma is > trying her hardest to point us in hopeful directions. Why rain on her > parade? > > Take care, > Brian > > > > > > >Selma, Tikopia was one of the small south Pacific Islands devasted by a > >cyclone earlier this year. It's population was a little over a thousand. I > >would be very skeptical that what is possible for a population that small > >would be possible for a population of many millions. In a family, or in a > >small community, we can perhaps achieve what the Tikopians are alleged to > >have achieved, but I would suggest that is probably about the limit. > > > >And I even have doubts about small communities. The small communities I > >lived in as a kid had their worthies and unworthies, their included and > >their excluded, those who were allowed and able to participate and those who > >were not. > > > >Ed > > > >Ed Weick > >577 Melbourne Ave. > >Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7 > >Canada > >Phone (613) 728 4630 > >Fax (613) 728 9382 > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > >> Harry responded to my comments about the capitalistic context causing > >> individuals to be treated as commodities. This seems an appropriate place > >to > >> try to describe some of the ideas discussed by Dorothy Lee in the little > >> book I keep referring to *Freedom and Culture* > >> > >> You will see that this discussion is very closely related to a post I sent > >> yesterday with a quote from David Bohm's *Wholeness and the Implicate > >Order* > >> and you will also see that it is directly related to the recent discussion > >> on this list of who should clean the toilets. > >> > >> Lee has a chapter entitled 'The Joy of Work as Participation'. She writes > >of > >> having made a discovery while she was working on a Christmas present for > >one > >> of her children on Christmas Eve when it was very late, she was exhausted > >> and "I was working against time, wishing I were in bed." > >> > >> She also speaks of the conflicts she was experiencing at this time, trying > >> to balance her work as an anthropologist with her responsibilities to her > >> two children, her husband and her home. She felt guilty about neglecting > >her > >> professional work and needed to justify whatever she did for the family; > >> making a blanket for the doll crib of her 3-year-old daughter seemed > >> justifiable because she couldn't afford to buy it. > >> > >> "As I sewed this Christmas Eve, I was suddenly astonished to discover that > >I > >> had started to add an entirely unpremeditated and unnecessary edging of > >> embroidery, and, simultaneously, I was aware of a deep enjoyment in what I > >> was doing. It was a feeling that had nothing to do with the pleasure the > >> work would give to my daughter on the morrow; it had nothing to do with a > >> sense of achievement, or of virtue in duty accomplished. And I knew that I > >> had never liked to embroider. There was no justification for my work; yet > >it > >> was the source of such a deep satisfaction, that the late hour and my > >> fatigue had ceased to exist for me. > >> > >> At this moment of discovery, I knew that I was experiencing what it meant > >to > >> be a social being, not merely Dorothy Lee, an individual; I knew that I > >had > >> truly become a mother, a wife, a neighbor, a teacher. I realized that > >some > >> boundary had disappeared, so that I was working in a social medium; that I > >> was not working for the future pleasure of a distant daughter, but rather > >> within a relationship unaffected by temporality or physical absence. What > >> gave meaning to my work was the medium in which I was working-the medium > >of > >> love, in a broad sense. So far, my rationalization and justification of my > >> work had obscured this meaning, had cut me off from my own social context. > >> It suddently became clear to me that it did not matter whether I was > >> scrubbing the kitchen floor or darning stockings or zipping up snowsuits; > >> these all had meaning, not in themselves, but in terms of the situation of > >> which they were a part. They contained social value because they > >implemented > >> the value of the social situation. > > > > >> This was a tremendous discovery for me, illuminating in a flash my > >> experience and my thinking. My mind went immediately to the Tikopia, about > >> whom I had been reading, and I said to myself, 'This is the way the > >Tikopia > >> work.' I had been puzzled about the motivating forces in the life of the > >> Tikopia. These were people who were without organized leadership in work, > >> yet who carried out large undertakings. And without any authority to > >impose > >> legislation and mete out punishment, the business of the village was > >carried > >> out and law and order were maintained. Raymond Firth, the ethnographer, > >> answering the unspoken quesitons of western readers, spoke of obligations, > >> duty, fear of adverse opinion, as motivations. I did not like his choice > >of > >> words, because he spoke of the obligation to perform unpleasant tasks, for > >> example, and yet the situations he described brimmed with joy. Now I saw > >> that the Tikopia did not need external incentives. > >> > >> This was all very well, but when I came to examine my discovery, I could > >not > >> explain it in any rational or acceptable way. My society did not structure > >> working situations as occasions which contained their own satisfaction; > >and > >> it assumed the existence of aggregates or collections of indiividuals, > >not > >> of a social continuum. I had learned to believe in the existence of a > >> distinct self, relating itself externally to work as a means to an end, > >with > >> external incentives and external rewards. yet it was obvious that if I got > >> satsisfaction from participating in a situation, there must be some > >medium, > >> some continuum, within which this participation can take place, If my > >family > >> and I were aspects of one whole; there must be some positive apprehension > >of > >> a continuity which made me an aspect of my family, not a separate member; > >it > >> was not enough to say that my physical being and my sensory experience did > >> not in themselves prescribe the limits of the self." > >> > >> She goes on to explore the meaning of self among the Tikopia; I'll leave > >> that for another time. > >> > >> I would just ask the members of this list if they have ever experienced > >> anything similar to what Lee describes as she was working on that blanket. > >I > >> know I have and I have felt it as a gift of enormous proportions; mostly, > >in > >> our society, it occurs in spite of the social and economic environment, > >not > >> because of it. But I strongly believe that it is possible to stucture a > >> society and to develop cultural values that make this kind of experience > >> possible and common for everyone. > >> > Selma, > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> Harry: > >> When was the labor of individuals not bought and sold. > >> > > >> > It seems to me this was always the case in Europe. So to blame > >capitalism > >> > merely shifts focus from the real problem. It wasn't true when there was > >> > plenty of free land available in North America. But that didn't last > >long > >> > and soon there was no alternative but to work for what one could get - > >> > which as Ricardo shrewdly noted moved downward toward subsistence. > >> > > >> > This is the case now. It is hidden now by all kinds of welfare > >> > distributions. The social and political sciences spend their energies on > >> > how much welfare will not be too much, but no-one seems to be > >> investigating > >> > why welfare is necessary. > >> > > >> > But, it's not capitalism that is the issue. This is just the latest > >> > manifestation of the same old problem that has kept the peoples of all > >> > countries in penury for centuries. > >> > > >> > Harry > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > Selma wrote: > >> > > >> > >Ray, > >> > > > >> > >I have been convinced, for many decades now, that Marx and some that > >> > >followed him were correct when they argued that, in a capitalistic > >> system, > >> > >where the labor of individuals is bought and sold, those individuals > >> thereby > >> > >become commodities that are bought and sold. In such a society the > >> general > >> > >consciousness becomes one of people being commodities and therefore, > >the > >> > >kind of connection you are talking about and the spirituality I have > >been > >> > >talking about are not possible. > > > > > > >> > >I am thinking, in particular, of Erich Fromm's arguments in *To Have or > >> To > >> > >Be*. > >> > > > >> > >Selma > >> > > >> > > >> > ****************************** > >> > Harry Pollard > >> > Henry George School of LA > >> > Box 655 > >> > Tujunga CA 91042 > >> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > Tel: (818) 352-4141 > >> > Fax: (818) 353-2242 > >> > ******************************* > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >-- > >> ---- > >> > >> > >> > > >> > --- > >> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >> > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 > >> > > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Futurework mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > -- > ************************************************** > * Brian McAndrews, Practicum Coordinator * > * Faculty of Education, Queen's University * > * Kingston, Ontario K7L 3N6 * > * FAX:(613) 533-6596 Phone (613) 533-6000x74937* > * e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * > * "Education is not the filling of a pail, * > * but the lighting of a fire. * > * W.B.Yeats * > * * > ************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
