Selma,
Doesn't Harry have the right to his own story as well? Isn't it important
that we see that there is Sparta, Athens and Jerusalem? And that all
three societies gain something the other does not but that all are
successful at attaining a balance where civic responsibility happens?
What I would ask would be more along the lines of his complaint about the
rest of the school where the students are obviously "seperating and
individuating" in their rebellion against authority. That is an important
part of every student's evolution and the West always has provided a stable
authority for the students to "bang their heads against" as they are finding
themselves.
We found a similar response as Harry in the Summerhill Schools but we also
found that there was an order to knowledge that could be subverted by these
various school cultures. You might be doing harm by expecting or
requiring responsibility at the wrong time even if you set up a situation in
which the students discovered responsibility to be the only efficient way to
keep from killing each other. I have found that the current generation
where children teach each other parallels the sixties drug generation where
they were together in the drug experience. In both cases they have trouble
with the type of discipline experience that authority gives both direction
and strength to when the student would lose their way in insecurity. I
think the current low concentration tolerance level for CEOs ("If it can't
be said in a page then it isn't worth my time") has to do with the
independance they experienced for leadership but the lack of discipline that
would give them the ability to deal with the "long haul." The
Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld issue of it being a good war but having no discipline
for the peace beyond brute force. We have to teach children to have
success with rhythm and the creative use of long timelines. Solving the
problem with authority and its resolution so that we can give each other the
authority to have our own expertise without being threatened by it is a very
important step in the development of the individual.
I think that Harry is a good teacher. I never questioned that. I do
argue with his surety as to culture and I argue with the limitations of his
axioms. I don't think they are complete enough to answer the human
condition. I would also argue that we all fit into that same limitation
as well. But are we personally big enough to break the envelope of our
assumptions and seek real answers?
Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Harry Pollard"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Futurework] The world of work
> Harry,
>
> I'm afraid you've missed the point of the embroidery story. For me, it
> points to the possibility of people working for the sake of working in the
> context of a spiritual milieu that generates connection of people to each
> other and to a larger whole. And, as Lee points out so eloquently, it can
> happen as easily when one is alone and when one is with others.
>
> I would love it if we, here on this list, would exchange stories of
> experiences we have had that approach what Lee is talking about. I believe
> that we can create a society in which children grow up learning that work
> can have this quality. Of course I must always add the caveat that all of
> the institutions must be in balance in order for this to be the prevailing
> mode but that doesn't mean that we cannot start to work toward things like
> this.
>
> I have this experienceoften when I am writing. I haven't done much writing
> lately but it is an exhilarating experience that feels as though I'm
> connected to something enormous; Lee expressed it for me in a way I
cannot.
> There is a sense of touching and being touched by something-the words that
> come to mind seem to me to beg for misunderstanding but they are the words
> that describe it for me- being touched by something cosmic and there is an
> overwhelming feeling of wholeness.
>
> I have had this experience when I've been washing dishes; it is a sense of
> serenity and again, connection; when I am making lunch for my family, with
> or without the help of my grandchildren. I have had this feeling while
> ironing clothes. And I have had this feeling while standing in front of a
> class and teaching with all of us being in the same place of connection.
>
> I have great difficulty finding the words; Lee does it so very well. I
would
> so love to hear from list members who, I'm sure, could describe it in the
> various forms it takes for them. Then we might start to think about how,
in
> the classroom, in the workplace, we might create an environment that
> 'allows' for this? 'encourages' this?
>
> I now have a strong urge to reread *Flow The Psychology of Optimal
> Experience * by Mihaly Csikszentimihalyi (chick sent me high ee).
>
> I do remember that one of the qualities of this experience that he
explores
> is that there is a loss of 'self-consciousness' which is totally different
> from a loss of the sense of self-in fact, it enhances the sense of self
but
> self in the context of the larger whole.
>
> Help! There is so much to this and it is so important.
>
> Selma
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If we can understand that that is an experience that can be common and
> pervasive, we can work toward creating an environment which has that
> potential.
> Selma
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [Futurework] The world of work
>
>
> > Selma,
> >
> > Your story of the Tikopia reminded me of the free market, where people
run
> > their own affairs rather than have the visible hand of the collective
> > pushing them in the "right" direction.
> >
> > As you may recall, my InterStudent High School Program is run like a
> > competitive free market. Cheating pervades the high schools.
Practically
> > everyone cheats because it's the thing one does. So, what to do in this
> > highly competitive Program which places responsibility on the individual
> > student, and in which students find that the way to handle the
competition
> > is to cooperate within their Groups?
> >
> > InterStudent encourages the students to lie, cheat and steal. We even
give
> > higher grades for creative cheating.
> >
> > The result? InterStudent classrooms are certainly the only places in the
> > School where there is no cheating. If you were to cheat me, Selma,
no-one
> > would condemn you. Rather, they would laugh at me for allowing myself to
> be
> > cheated. The result is a high rate of personal responsibility - so much
so
> > that trying to cheat becomes a waste of time.
> >
> > So, the kids stop it. Cheating is so widespread in High Schools that we
> had
> > to take drastic action.
> >
> > Tikopia is a different matter. When people have grown up there is no
need
> > to monitor them. They will cooperate and be friendly because it makes
> > sense. They don't need a Big Brother to keep them in line.
> >
> > The embroidery story was delightful!
> >
> > Harry
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Selma wrote:
> >
> > >I sent this excerpt from the Dorothy Lee book "Freedom and Culture"
last
> > >February in response to a discussion about 'who should clean the
toilets'
> > >which discussion seems to be occurring again.
> > >
> > > > Lee has a chapter entitled 'The Joy of Work as Participation'. She
> writes
> > >of
> > > > having made a discovery while she was working on a Christmas present
> for
> > >one
> > > > of her children on Christmas Eve when it was very late, she was
> exhausted
> > > > and "I was working against time, wishing I were in bed."
> > > >
> > > > She also speaks of the conflicts she was experiencing at this time,
> trying
> > > > to balance her work as an anthropologist with her responsibilities
to
> her
> > > > two children, her husband and her home. She felt guilty about
> neglecting
> > >her
> > > > professional work and needed to justify whatever she did for the
> family;
> > > > making a blanket for the doll crib of her 3-year-old daughter seemed
> > > > justifiable because she couldn't afford to buy it.
> > > >
> > > > "As I sewed this Christmas Eve, I was suddenly astonished to
discover
> that
> > >I
> > > > had started to add an entirely unpremeditated and unnecessary edging
> of
> > > > embroidery, and, simultaneously, I was aware of a deep enjoyment in
> what I
> > > > was doing. It was a feeling that had nothing to do with the pleasure
> the
> > > > work would give to my daughter on the morrow; it had nothing to do
> with a
> > > > sense of achievement, or of virtue in duty accomplished. And I knew
> that I
> > > > had never liked to embroider. There was no justification for my
work;
> yet
> > >it
> > > > was the source of such a deep satisfaction, that the late hour and
my
> > > > fatigue had ceased to exist for me.
> > > >
> > > > At this moment of discovery, I knew that I was experiencing what it
> meant
> > >to
> > > > be a social being, not merely Dorothy Lee, an individual; I knew
that
> I
> > >had
> > > > truly become a mother, a wife, a neighbor, a teacher. I realized
that
> > >some
> > > > boundary had disappeared, so that I was working in a social medium;
> that I
> > > > was not working for the future pleasure of a distant daughter, but
> rather
> > > > within a relationship unaffected by temporality or physical absence.
> What
> > > > gave meaning to my work was the medium in which I was working-the
> medium
> > >of
> > > > love, in a broad sense. So far, my rationalization and justification
> of my
> > > > work had obscured this meaning, had cut me off from my own social
> context.
> > > > It suddently became clear to me that it did not matter whether I was
> > > > scrubbing the kitchen floor or darning stockings or zipping up
> snowsuits;
> > > > these all had meaning, not in themselves, but in terms of the
> situation of
> > > > which they were a part. They contained social value because they
> > >implemented
> > > > the value of the social situation.
> > > >
> > > > This was a tremendous discovery for me, illuminating in a flash my
> > > > experience and my thinking. My mind went immediately to the Tikopia,
> about
> > > > whom I had been reading, and I said to myself, 'This is the way the
> > >Tikopia
> > > > work.' I had been puzzled about the motivating forces in the life of
> the
> > > > Tikopia. These were people who were without organized leadership in
> work,
> > > > yet who carried out large undertakings. And without any authority
to
> > >impose
> > > > legislation and mete out punishment, the business of the village was
> > >carried
> > > > out and law and order were maintained. Raymond Firth, the
> ethnographer,
> > > > answering the unspoken quesitons of western readers, spoke of
> obligations,
> > > > duty, fear of adverse opinion, as motivations. I did not like his
> choice
> > >of
> > > > words, because he spoke of the obligation to perform unpleasant
tasks,
> for
> > > > example, and yet the situations he described brimmed with joy. Now I
> saw
> > > > that the Tikopia did not need external incentives.
> > > >
> > > > This was all very well, but when I came to examine my discovery, I
> could
> > >not
> > > > explain it in any rational or acceptable way. My society did not
> structure
> > > > working situations as occasions which contained their own
> satisfaction;
> > >and
> > > > it assumed the existence of aggregates or collections of
> indiividuals,
> > >not
> > > > of a social continuum. I had learned to believe in the existence of
a
> > > > distinct self, relating itself externally to work as a means to an
> end,
> > >with
> > > > external incentives and external rewards. yet it was obvious that if
I
> got
> > > > satsisfaction from participating in a situation, there must be some
> > >medium,
> > > > some continuum, within which this participation can take place, If
my
> > >family
> > > > and I were aspects of one whole; there must be some positive
> apprehension
> > >of
> > > > a continuity which made me an aspect of my family, not a separate
> member;
> > >it
> > > > was not enough to say that my physical being and my sensory
experience
> did
> > > > not in themselves prescribe the limits of the self."
> > > >
> > > > She goes on to explore the meaning of self among the Tikopia; I'll
> leave
> > > > that for another time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would just ask the members of this list if they have ever
> experienced
> > > > anything similar to what Lee describes as she was working on that
> blanket.
> > >I
> > > > know I have and I have felt it as a gift of enormous proportions;
> mostly,
> > >in
> > > > our society, it occurs in spite of the social and economic
> environment,
> > >not
> > > > because of it. But I strongly believe that it is possible to
stucture
> a
> > > > society and to develop cultural values that make this kind of
> experience
> > > > possible and common for everyone.
> > > > > Selma,
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************
> > Harry Pollard
> > Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles
> > Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042
> > Tel: (818) 352-4141 -- Fax: (818) 353-2242
> > http://home.comcast.net/~haledward
> > ****************************************************
> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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>
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