Hi Cara,
You said: For this particular case, it is even quicker than with
something like JFW.
I say: I'll have to respectfully disagree with that.
I don't use JFW at all, but rather NVDA.
The hot keys for jumping forward and backward by heading are H and shift
+ H.
And for link are K and shift + K.
I agree that pressing up and down is just as quick as pressing H and
shift + H, but only if the rotor was already set to navigate by headings.
Otherwise you have the extra keypress of switching the rotor to
headings, which could in fact be more than one extra key press depending
upon how far from headings you are in the rotor.
I do not own a Mac myself but I do use an iPhone with a bluetooth keyboard.
When navigating the topics with new posts section of
forum.audiogames.net using NVDA I commonly press H until I find a topic
I'm interested in, then K 2 or more times until I get to the new link,
then control + enter to open it in a new tab.
Then I can start hitting H again to navigate by heading.
Once I've opened all the tabs I'm interested in I then control tab
between them.
To compare with the iPhone, assuming the experience were similar on Mac
and I could use the same sort of control + enter to open new tabs the
experience feels more like this:
Switch the rotor to headings.
Press down until I find a topic I'm interested in.
Switch the rotor to links.
Press down until I find the new link.
Press control + enter or equivalent on Mac.
Switch the rotor back to headings to repeat the process.
I find the extra rotor changing to be tedious as compared with the
single key stroke solution found in Windows screen readers.
I'll definitely say that the rotor as a solution for accessible gesture
navigation is brilliant, but is not the most efficient way of navigating
when a keyboard is available.
Apple has done a lot of great things for accessibility and I'm sure
they'll continue to do so.
And I can appreciate their fresh / innovative take on how a screen
should be navigated and how accessibility information should be obtained
by a screen reader.
But I do think that windows screen readers didn't get everything wrong
and they should borrow from the good ideas already discovered when it
makes sense.
Have a great day, smile!
Ian Reed
Try my free games at http://BlindAudioGames.com
On 10/6/2013 9:24 AM, Cara Quinn wrote:
Hi Scott,
Just use the rotor on the trackpad and then all you need do is flick up or down
with one finger to navigate between headings.
For this particular case, it is even quicker than with something like JFW.
I agree that there still needs to be quite a bit of streamlining to say the
least, but I do also think that with the trackpad navigation for one thing, it
has become quite fast to move around much of the time.
If you haven't checked out trackpad commander or hot spots, then definitely
check them out as they can really make your life way way way easier! :)
To kind of bring this back to gaming, I definitely think moving on from the
keyboard as a game controller is a great thing. So I for one, am super glad
that devs are starting to use other devices like the mouse and more 'analog'
approaches for game control.
I'm looking forward to this only becoming more prevalent and flexible as
technology improves.
Just my thoughts…
Smiles,
Cara :)
---
View my Online Portfolio at:
http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn
Follow me on Twitter!
https://twitter.com/ModelCara
On Oct 6, 2013, at 5:32 AM, Scott Chesworth <[email protected]> wrote:
Che was probably talking about the amount of modifier keys that need
to be held down to execute some VoiceOver specific commands. I own a
Mac, use it often, but would agree that it's ridiculous. Case in
point, had I been reading this thread using Gmail's web interface in
Safari and wanted to jump back a heading, I would've had to hold down
five keys at once to activate a command that gets done using two keys
in practically every other screen reader. Sure, there are a few ways
around it, and even a way to get it down to my goal of two with a bit
of extra button pushing here and there, but that doesn't make the way
things are configured by default any closer to Apple's usual standard
of a smooth and effortless user experience. I would say that
accessibility in OS X is pretty solid on paper, but VO itself is
currently a mess.
Btw, I'm proper excited about RR2!
Scott
On 10/6/13, Thomas Ward <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Che,
I assume by "finger acrobatics" you are talking about the way you have
to interact with GUI components to activate them etc with VoiceOver. I
agree it is strange, not as efficient as using Jaws, but after a while
it becomes second nature. I think Mac OS X accessibility is very good,
but it is fundamentally different in concept from the way Windows
accessibility works. Different from Linux for that matter as well.
Cheers!
On 10/5/13, Che Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
Hey ya
Bryan and all,
I'd love to do RR on iphone, but it is a very complex game, so probably
not.
At this point, I don't have the programming skills to do even a hello
world on iOS.
However, I have looked very seriously at iOS development, going so far
as
to buy a Mac Book Pro so I could start learning objective C, since you
can't
program for iOS on a PC.
However, I was so sorely dissapointed by Mac accessibility I haven't
picked up the Mac for months.
After using an iphone for over a year now, when I bought the Mac, I
just
assumed the accessibility would be as polished as what is offered with
iOs,
man was I in for a rude awakening after spending 1600 bucks.
Some of the decisions made by the Apple accessibility folks are
amazingly
puzzling to say the least.
Why do we have to do finger acrobatics to get the simplist of things
done
on a mac?
I could go on and on about the terrible interface, but bottom line, its
very frustrating for no good reason, its just bad design all around, and
I
don't understand it.
I know lots of blind folks are using macs exclusively, but having spent
several weeks patiently and tenaciously trying to work with the mac, I am
confident that I could run circles around any mac user using voiceover
versus windows and jaws when it comes to efficiency and productiveness.
I am no apple hater, I made the switch from android to iphone a while
back, and have no regrets. I love my iphone and ipad, and appreciate the
time and money Apple has put into accessibility for iOS.
I don't care about the operating system, I am no fan boy of any system,
I
just want to be able to create my designs efficiently and effectively,
but
the accessibility implementation on Mac is just sad so far.
Hopefully there will be major improvements soon to voiceover on the
mac,
because obviously the future of audio games lies in the mobile platforms,
and apple is way ahead of the curve with iOs when it comes to a mobile
platform for the blind.
I have some design ideas for iOs, and I too have been mostly
dissapointed
by the current crop of audio games available on iOs, though there are
some
standouts, it just seems the potential has so far not even been
scratched.
The possibilities are amazing on mobile platforms for the blind, with
the
accelerometers, positional feedback, vibration and so forth, developers
just
need the door to their ideas to be cracked open a little wider.
I know it can be done, as many other blind developers have developed
for
iOS and android, and I'll keep my finger on the pulse of mobile
development,
but for now its PC for me and Blind Adrenaline.
If other blind developers are on this list and have had success with
iOS
development, I'd love to hear from you, my email address is:
[email protected]
If I have missed the boat as far as blind developers posting success
stories on list here, my apologies, I very infrequently check this list.
Regarding Rail Racer, if you liked the first version, your gonna love
the
new one, I've spent more time improving this one than I spent on the
entirety of making RR 1, and this time around I have a lot more
programming
experience under my belt.
I personally think rr2 will be in the top 3 of audio games as far as
replayablility and pure fun, along with swamp and time of conflict.
Happy gaming all,
Che
---
Gamers mailing list __ [email protected]
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
[email protected].
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected].
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to [email protected].
---
Gamers mailing list __ [email protected]
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected].
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected].
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to [email protected].
---
Gamers mailing list __ [email protected]
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected].
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected].
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to [email protected].
---
Gamers mailing list __ [email protected]
If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected].
You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected].
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
please send E-mail to [email protected].
