I can not agree more Hartmutt!!!
Emmanuel
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:42 PM
Subject: AW.: Re: [Gecko] Phelsuma imports and Parasite loads
> Hi Peter, hi folks,
>
> even though the topic is almost off again, still one more comment from my
> side ... as I don´t get to write everyday, I am a little slower in
replying
> than
> most others here seem to be :-(
>
> > Somewhere in this discussion, the premisse popped up that parasite-loads
do
> > tell something about the wild-caught/ captive bred status of animals.It
> doesn'
> > t. Parasite loads do tell something about the stress animals are
exposed
> to.
> > ...
>
> Yes, I can absolutely agree with this statement, and didn´t want to
suggest
> that the hight amount of parasites found in the fecals makes for a sure
proof
> of the WC status. BUT ... as often WC animals tend to have more of them,
> there is a statistic probabilty for these animals to be WC ... in my
opinion.
>
> > Now, I have seen the alledged breeding facilities of the breeder
mentioned
> > myself. Only once, so it's just this one moment in 1997 I can tell you
> about.
> > It looked as if the geckoes bred well there. He had loads of egg shells
to
> > vouch for that (he has to show these to the authorities to proof the
> animals
> > are captive bred). But, as there are basically territorial animals in
> large
> > ...
>
> Again I can agree with you to the point that I, too, was convinced at that
> time
> that I had bought CB animals which had had a lot of natural daylight and
> lived in
> large groups, and therefore had the typical WC coloration and the wounds
> that many WC often carry away after smaller fights. And I talked to the
> breeder
> personally several times at different occasions and was trusting in his
words.
>
> So the situation as I see it - today - is the following:
>
> I don´t know exactly where the animals sold now in the US and europe come
> from, but the number that are up and about are MUCH too large to be bred
in
> any facility of the size I have seen on the pictures. Anyone who ever
tried to
> breed ornata, cepediana and guimbeaui can tell you that they are quite
slow in
> growing and don´t lay too many eggs per year - my personal account for
ornata
> is (over the last four years) about 12 to 18 eggs (maximum!) per year and
> female,
> and of these an average of 14 hatch and reach an age to be given away
> properly.
> Taking in account the additional losses breeding in groups will bring, I
will
> have
> to breed with about 50 females to get 500 animals to give away. They will
take
> between 12 and 16 months (at least) to reach adulthood, and feed on about
6
> large crix a week ... amounting to a total of 3.300 crix per week and over
> 170.000
> crix per year to be fed (including the parents). If you wonder what it
takes
> to
> breed those, go and ask a live-food dealer ... you will find it´s not THAT
> cheap at all.
> Then the costs for heating, lighting, supplements, the cages and spare
lamps
> ...
> let´s just say it´s another fine sum you will find here. And then they are
> sold at 125.-
> DM retail ... making for about 80.- DM (40$) dealer´s price ... I for
myself
> can´t
> image what to do to make a profit even from that. If I am lucky, I manage
to
> get
> back just about my food costs every year, even though I manage to breed a
> large
> lot of Phelsumas every year. Hey, wasn´t there someone on this list to
> proclaim
> that breeders and money mix well ...? If so, then please give me advice -
I
> just don´t
> manage to make profit of my hobby ... what am I doing wrong?
>
> So, my conclusion:
> On the fairs I have seen and been to, or heard of, and in the shops I
know,
> have been to or have heard of (all worldwide), must have been over 500
> animals of
> each of the three species mentioned above available in the last year. In
my
> opinion they cannot have been bred in this number at the facility I have
seen
> pictures of. So either the breeder has bad luck and is mixed in with a
large
> wave of
> illegal "CBs" (in competition with his wares), or ... ? I got no proofs,
but
> I just do
> some reasoning - I hope that I now made clear that I cannot accuse this
> breeder,
> but that I believe that many of the animals sold are of very dubious
sources.
> I
> dunno, maybe there is some secret and superb breeding facility somewhere
in
> this world, but mother nature seems to be the best source still ;-)
>
> OK, done with the brain dump -
>
> cheers, Hartmut
>
>
> ######################################################################
> THE GLOBAL GECKO ASSOCIATION LISTSERV
> WebSite: http://www.gekkota.com
> The GGA takes no responsibility for the contents of these postings.
> ######################################################################
>
