Hi Leslie, I agree with each of your points except one. Funny that we very likely agree on 99.9% of all things here and this will amount to splitting hairs. I'm afraid I wasn't clear in my initial writings since we seem to be facing two different directions. Some keepers have Import and CITES permits for these species because they already have been working with them (in some cases for many years). My point is that if the zoos do not even have the permits how is it that they could be expected to have prior experience? These are not species to learn on. Unfortunately the opportunity once WAS available, in the early '90's, when these animals cost $25. Even more unfortunately is that only some very astute private keepers recognized their value (and I'm not talking money or possibility for colour morphs here?) and managed to keep them going. Obviously more are gone than remian - but that fault falls in both camps.
Perhaps there is a disadvantage here because the majority of what I know and refer to is outside of the US. Your point is well taken, if misdirected, regarding in situ study and education. If only this were the rule rather than the exception with virtually all North American zoos. Especially with regard to herpetology. I will not argue that we don't have teams cataloging but in my experience there is not a lot of intrinsic value espoused in situ for geckos. SSP's are viable but not the only way to manage successfully. I would say it has been done well in Europe for quite a while now. Jamie -----Original Message----- From: Rich and Leslie Sturges [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 2:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Gecko] phelsuma and zoos--long Having recently been in the employ of a zoo, it is not necessary to have import permits if the zoo is not importing animals. They do have to have proper permits to house CITES species. Obviously, if they house CITES species they are permitted for that species. If they wish to expand their collection through accepting FWS confiscations, they have to apply for the proper permits. I don't see why this is dissapointing in any way. Zoos that violate permitting requirements (and they are under severe scrutiny by FWS btw) risk losing animals and their AZA accreditation. I can't think of even one AZA accredited zoo that wants to risk that. As to your question about track records...perhaps the opportunity hasn't presented itself??? Now that the animals are going to zoos, keepers have the challenge of propagating the species so that other zoos can also exhibit and propagate. That's the way it's done in the modern zoo where species are managed for genetic viablity and not for commercial profit or new color morphs or whatever catches the hobbyists' fancy. This is not to say that there aren't people out there who could keep and breed these animals better than zoos. But in the US is a breeder likely to land a grant to study the animals in situ? to land a grant to pay for an in situ environmental educator to teach the local population about the value of their own resorces? to pool resources with other facilities to purchase habitat? to provide cash resources to local NGOs to deal with the social problems that lead to habitat destruction? Zoos do this and more every day through their Taxon Advisory Group members, friends groups, SSps, etc. Leslie James Corell wrote: > Disappointing that some of the private keepers have up to date CITES > and Import permits for Phelsuma specifically when I don't know even > one zoo in the US that does. I even have permits for some of those > SPECIES.Do we know ANY US zoos who have proven track records with some > of the species in question? P.serraticauda, P.flavigularis, P.guttata > especially. I can name keepers off the top of my head who do... > Would have been nice to re-export some of these to a few German > keepers in particular in order to assure future success.Jamie > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:19 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gecko] Phelsuma confiscation rumor > > Hi Magnus and all, > > > > Thank you for the information on this sad topic. I still > > have to say that I think the company > > in question is to be held responsible for killing these > > animales ( if that�s what have happened). > > >>>>>>>>>> > I have spoken to an inspector, in fact the one that > confiscated the animals and he assured me that no animals > were euthenized and all were placed with zoos all over the > country. U.S. Fish and Wildlife makes every effort to see to > it that confiscated animals are well taken care of and > delivered to institutions that have the knowledge to keep > the animals. I agre that private breeders with a known track > record would be the best choice but U.S. Fish and Wildlife > cannot allow CITES animals such as these, into the pet trade > even though they also acknowledge that many private keepers > are better suited for this than are zoos! In any case the > rumor that these animals were killed needlessly is nothing > more than a rumor! > > Don Wells > > > > You'll notice that a turtle only makes progress when it > sticks > out its neck. > > ########################################################################### THE GLOBAL GECKO ASSOCIATION LISTSERV WebSite: www.gekkota.com Archive: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ The GGA takes no responsibility for the contents of these postings. ###########################################################################
