I prefer not to throw away money into a sinking ship. If I had a pipe leaking in my house from multiple fracture points I would opt to gut my whole plumbing system and replace with something that was not obsolete. If the GGA were an automobile it would be a Lemon. Things have certainly turned very sour around here I just don't think there's enough sugar to sweeten it back up. I have seen the publications,I can say I wouldn't have missed much if I'd missed them. Maybe if you want help from people to turn this thing around you should lead by example.The only active part of the GGA is this list serve,and it's a joke. To try to pretend this organization is fulfilling some higher purpose is an insult to members intelligence. There is a big reason why I haven't been a member.It's pretty sad that some of the most knowledgeable,passionate and enthusiastic gecko keepers in the world aren't participating in The Global Gecko Association. I have legitimate criticisms. If there wasn't a problem my points wouldn't be valid. No one has been able to respond with any good reasons or excuses for the issues I have called you out on. Just a bunch of shuck and jive b.s.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 17:47:54 -0400Jay, you haven't been a member for several years. It's too bad you missed all the publications. We have put out some beautiful editions that we are quite proud of Joining, or volunteering to help would would be more productive than trashing something people have worked very hard on, without any compensation, rather paying out our own pockets to keep things going. We have two lifetime members on our board. We put our money into GGA gladly. Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:16 PM, Jay Sommers wrote:Lyle, There is most definitely a self serving interest to all on the board of the so-called "Global Gecko Association". No meetings,no journals,and furthermore no real reason for continuing to exist. What is being done of any real merit with the money received from GGA members? Speaking of merit...I am judging the GGA on its own.There is absolutely no substance what-so-ever to this "society". After the flop of the IGS I thought everyone would have learned something. Apparently not. As president I hold you personally responsible for the inexcusable lack of leadership. If I didn't think the GGA was beyond repair I would directly challenge you for your position as President. The problem is it is too far gone. There is no real reason for the GGA to exist anymore. The ethical thing to do would be to let nature take it's course and let it die. Jesus Christ,let it go out with some damn dignity. Jay "GG" Sommers From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Re: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400GGA has and will exist for all who have an interest. It was never intended or will be intended for an exclusive group of self interests. The GGA journal and newsletter is produced with all interests of the membership addressed and will continue to do so. This list is open to all, including non GGA members free of charge and to help when we can. Everyone is free to post, questions, help suggestions and also criticism freely. I read the below post of our purpose and it seems like we do just that: "Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist." The threads are labeled here and one can always deleted those they have no interest in or unsubscribe. All are welcome ( i just put on some John Denver hahaha ...... ) Lyle Lyle Puente President Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.org http://www.MyBrothersBanned.com http://www.myspace.com/MyBrothersBanned On Jun 9, 2008, at 11:59 AM, Jay Sommers wrote: Actually I should clarify my last post. When I said flush it I meant the GGA. This thing has been reduced to a pathetic joke.The problem is that the joke has no humor. My email has been blowing up over the last week and not one post was worthy of landing in my inbox. This is what the GGA was supposed to be... "The Global Gecko Association (GGA) is dedicated to gecko enthusiasts worldwide. Membership is open to anyone with an interest in gekkonids, from the professional herpetologist to the hobbyist. The GGA is an organization committed to promote interest in gekkonids in a variety of ways, from responsible captive care, to study in the wild, conservation, academic research and beyond. Furthermore, the GGA will serve people who are interested in gekkonids by providing a voice and means of communicating and sharing of resources and ideas. " Now before anyone gets upset.I have a right to voice my opinion.I maintain one of the largest and most diverse geckonid species collections in the world(over 200 species). My life revolves around geckos,not one person in the GGA loves geckos more than me.Alot of you know who I am. Let the GGA die already.Put it out of it's misery,It is the responsible and ethical thing to do. You are helping destroy the interest in my hobby and the GGA is far beyond being rediculous. PLEASE,PLEASE, let it die.Find another avenue for social acceptance. GGA...R.I.P. Very kindest regards, Jay "GG" Sommers From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: RE: [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 15:30:16 +0000 I would say next time to just flush it. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]> Subject: Re: > [gecko]...Euthanasia for Distressed Geckos...> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2008 08:17:14 > -0800> > Hi Sherron,> > I know a snake-keeper that kills rats with (I think) > a carbon-dioxide > chamber, because she doesn't like to kill them "maually". > I can find > out more, or put you in touch with her if you like.> > Hope this > helps,> Melody> > Sherron wrote:> > > Aloha, Kind Friends> > > > I prefer to > let nature take its course usually, too. But sometimes you > > can see they > are in obvious pain ... and that hurts me too much, too. I > > can't bear to > see them in pain. Especially when it has become apparent > > that it is > hopeless.> > > > This poor girl apparently fell from our high ceiling onto a > tile floor. > > When we found her, she only moved when we tried to gently > move her out > > of the way. We placed her in a container so she would be > safe from > > predators (other geckos, cats, mongoose, birds) and foot > traffic, in the > > hopes she would recover, and gave her fruit and water. It > was obvious it > > hurt her to move, but she seemed okay when still, so we > hoped for the best.> > > > By the afternoon of the next day, however, her > eyes were badly sunken, > > she had trouble breathing, and her skin was > developing black blotchy > > areas. She would stiffen and gasp repeatedly for > air, which obviously > > was causing her more pain. By this time, it had been > about 18-20 hours > > since her fall and she had started to deteriorate > rapidly. If there had > > been any hope ... :(> > > > If we were still on the > mainland, I could have taken her to our vet who > > we did trust and who > would have treated her properly. But here in the > > islands, we don't have > those resources. Our real problem is finding > > someone who would even treat > geckos. Heck, finding adequate medical > > treatment for humans is a big > problem on the outer islands, let alone > > for exotic animals. I have > Myasthenia Gravis (MG) and I can't find a > > neurologist that knows anything > about my disease on this island. My > > husband sees a cardiologist who flies > over once a month from the island > > of Oahu. It took me 1-1/2 years to find > a personal doctor who would > > treat my "complicated" problems. Medical care > for both people and > > animals is sadly lacking.> > > > And it looks like > the small number of vets here primarily just treat > > cats & dogs. Those I > have called don't include reptiles at all. But I > > really am not surprised, > as we had trouble finding a vet who really knew > > how to take care of > "exotics" like our pet rats in southern California, > > too. Finding good > vets who know more than cats & dogs has always been a > > problem -- it's > just that here in Kona there are far fewer to start with.> > > > I am also no > longer convinced that a shot from just any vet is > > automatically better. I > took one of my rats to another vet when our own > > vet was out of town and > she screamed in pain from his injection -- she > > suffered a lot from it and > it took her a long time to die as she > > suffered. Not all vets have empathy > nor even seem to believe that > > animals really can suffer pain. So unless > you know the vet, you are just > > taking your chances. Sometimes you have no > choice, But that experience > > has made me leery of automatically trusting > every vet.> > > > Worse, after doing some checking online, I find that it is > illegal in > > Hawaii to catch & keep any day geckos in Hawaii (except with a > permit > > for scientific research) in order to discourage any trade in them > > > whatsoever. It is okay to keep the native species, but not any animal > > > banned for import/export that are deemed dangerous to the native > > > populations (native insects, in this case). So even if there were good > > > gecko vets, they would be risking their license if they to treat a day > > > gecko since they cannot be legally kept.> > > > So right now we are pretty > much on our own. We either have to stand by > > and watch them die, no matter > how long it takes, or we need something > > else we can come up with to make > their going easier. Maybe my husband > > can "smash" them, as someone else > suggested. I don't know that I could > > unless they were already partially > crushed already ... or like this poor > > little baby we found on our lanai, > being eaten alive by ants, we think > > partially eaten by a day gecko who > bit off more than it could chew and > > coughed her back up.> > > > > > We're > sure she was in terrible pain -- I can't believe that freezing her > > was > worse than the pain she was suffering.> > > > I didn't know what to do for > them, but my husband felt freezing would be > > quicker and kinder than > letting them slowly die in pain. If we were > > wrong, I regret it immensely. > I do know it is not at all kind for > > mammals; I just do not know for > reptiles. Thankfully, we have > > encountered such dreadful conditions only > twice. But knowing day geckos, > > it is possible this horrible situation > will come up again -- and I am > > desperate for a better choice. Can you > help? :(> > > > Mahalo, Sherron> > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > Gecko aka Sherron, Kailua Kona, Hawaii (on the Big Island of Hawaii)> > > Homepage: http://hale-pohaku.com/sherron - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > See > our rats: http://hale-pohaku.com/dennis/ratgallery.html> > > > > _______________________________________________> Global Gecko Association> > http://www.gekkota.com> Classifieds> > http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi> gecko mailing list> > [email protected]> http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger.Invite friends now! It’s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How. Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive. _________________________________________________________________ Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Add now. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_AddNow_Now
