Pikir2 A Hok lebih beruntung dari Socrates............

Op wo 15 dec. 2021 om 12:47 schreef kh djie <[email protected]>:

> Socrates dihukum mati, korban demokrasi :
> https://www.hukum-hukum.com/2020/07/bahaya-racun-mematikan-demokrasi.html
> Zaman sekarang demokrasi digerogoti oleh liberalisme sepertri yang terjadi
> di Amerika sekarang. Beberapa % orang gterkaya yang menguasai mass media
> dapat menentukan hasil pemilihan umum yang "demokratis" ( one man one vote"
> ). Demokrasi masih jalan cukup baik di negeri2 kecil seperti Finlandia dll.
>
> Op wo 15 dec. 2021 om 10:53 schreef Jaya Suprana <[email protected]>:
>
>> *DEMOKRASI BANYAK-MUKA 😁*
>>
>> Pada tanggal Rab, 15 Des 2021 pukul 09.15 BILLY GUNADIE <
>> [email protected]> menulis:
>>
>>> Kelihatanya Demokrasi itu banyak mukanya.... Cocok apa yang dikatakan
>>> Oleh Socrates...Demokrasi Barat...
>>>
>>> Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>
>>> On Tue., Dec. 14, 2021 at 8:50 p.m., Chan CT
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Diakui atau tidak, dalam kenyataan kehidupan masyarakat yang konkrit
>>> dihadapi, yang jalankan sistem multi partai didunia ini, makin banyak
>>> parpol bukan membuktikan makin “demokrasi”, sebaliknya membuktikan makin
>>> terjadi PERPECAHAN dalam masyarakat itu! Artinya, BELUM ada satu PARTAI pun
>>> yang berhasil MEMPERSATUKAN mayoritas mutlak rakyat disitu! Dalam
>>> kenyataaan, rakyat masih terpecah, terkotak-kotak dalam
>>> kepentingan-kepentingan banyak parpol yang ada, ...!
>>>
>>> Lalu, begitu menekankan jalankan sistem demokrasi dengan pemilu, yang
>>> terjadi pertarungan antar kepentingan parpol. BUKAN mengutamakan dan
>>> memprioritaskan kepentingan rakyat banyak! Pergantian kekuasaan yang
>>> terjadi, hanyalah manifestasi kemenangan kepentingan dan pergantian
>>> kelompok oligarki yang satu ke yang lain. BUKAN dan tidak pernah
>>> betul-betul mewakili kepentingan rakyat banyak. Sebaliknya kepentingan
>>> rakyat banyak selalu yang dikebawahkan kalau tidak hendak menyatakan yang
>>> DIKORBANKAN! Itulah yang terjadi dinegara-negara yang mengaku negara
>>> “DEMOKRASI”, khususnya Amerika itu, ...
>>>
>>> Berbeda dengan RRT, Republik Rakyat Tiongkok yang baru saja melewati
>>> ultah ke-70 dan 100 tahun PKT nya itu, bukan saja membuktikan kejayaan
>>> Jalan Sosialisme Berkarakter Tiongkok yang ditempuh, tapi juga kehebatan
>>> DEMOKRASI yang dijalankan Tiongkok dengan sistim PKT, partai tunggal yang
>>> menjalankan pemerintah dan berhasil mendapatkan dukungan lebih 90% 1,4
>>> milyar Rakyat Tiongkok! Dan, tentunya dengan keberhasilan pembangunan
>>> ekonomi, teknologi, kekuatan militer dan budaya yang menakjubkan dunia itu,
>>> ... Dalam mengatasi dan mengendalikan pandemi Covid-19 yang pertama merebak
>>> di Wuhan, sumbangan vaksin pada dunia dan membebaskan lebih 700 juta
>>> rakyatnya dari kemiskinan-absolut, ....! Membuat rakyat Tiongkok hidup
>>> lebih sejahtera dan bahagia, ...!
>>>
>>> Canadian vlogger: China's people's democracy makes people's lives better
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQYQIzl28WQ
>>>
>>> *From:* BILLY GUNADIE
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 15, 2021 7:11 AM
>>> *To:* [email protected] ; Indra Azali
>>> *Cc:* Chan CT ; Jaya Suprana ; GELORA45_In
>>> *Subject:* Re: [GELORA45] In China, democracy is "people-oriented."
>>>
>>> Apakah die Partei Immer recht?
>>>
>>> Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android
>>> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue., Dec. 14, 2021 at 4:15 a.m., Sunny ambon
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Die Partei hat immer Recht.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 8:07 AM 'Indra Azali' via GELORA45 <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> China has tried multiparty in the past.  it does not reform for people
>>> so election of multiparty did not work and cost to much energy and money
>>> for media campaigned and hoax. And China use selection process from party
>>> village to top level of 2.5 million CPC party member. Does China select
>>> professional that are not yet Cpc member. That is part of option  While
>>> Indonesia is multiparty yet the direction of nation is based populous
>>> religion not people center in different region. So the consolidation of
>>> party become executive to keep changing the executive ministerial quota.
>>> That is only between political elite for quota.
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 13, 2021, 08:08:49 PM GMT+7, Jaya Suprana <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> *NOT THE ONLY ONE PARTY ORIENTED ? 😁 *
>>>
>>> Pada tanggal Sen, 13 Des 2021 pukul 10.45 Chan CT <[email protected]>
>>> menulis:
>>>
>>> *Good article sharing*
>>> *In China, democracy is "people-oriented."  *
>>>
>>> I am Malaysian Chinese.  When my grandfather was young, he used to fight
>>> with the horses in the forests of the Malay Peninsula, so he didn't have a
>>> good impression of the Communist Party.  In 1998, I came to China to do
>>> mobile network. At that time, Beijing still used donkey carts to collect
>>> wastewater. I saw farmers driving ducks on the side of the road. The fruit
>>> vendor downstairs in the hotel asked me if I wanted a young lady.  Later,
>>> China was the same year after year. During these 23 years, I witnessed
>>> China's development and witnessed with my own eyes what the Communist Party
>>> did for the people.
>>>
>>> Many democracies are actually "you, the people, we lead."  *In China,
>>> democracy is "people-oriented."*  For example, there is a 12345 hotline
>>> in China. After the people call it, government personnel will follow this
>>> case, and then the timing will start.  For example, the roadside was very
>>> noisy, and the soundproof fence was installed soon.  Problems that cannot
>>> be solved will be entered into the system's big data.  Once the government
>>> finds that this is a common problem, it will issue a policy to solve
>>> similar problems all at once.  The central government also judges the
>>> performance of local governments based on big data and the efficiency of
>>> local governments in solving problems.  This is democracy, democracy that
>>> operates every day.  Is it better to give feedback to the government than
>>> to demonstrate?
>>>
>>> Regardless of infrastructure, social security, people's livelihood,
>>> environment, and greening issues, the government did it before the people
>>> said it.  No one said that high-speed rail is needed, and the high-speed
>>> rail is here.  The 300 km/h speed is still hot, the 600 km/h speed is
>>> coming soon.  Capitals like Ant Financial who want to harvest future money
>>> are controlled by the government before the people find out.  In order to
>>> solve the pollution problem, the government heavily subsidizes tram
>>> factories and develops trams. China is now the country with the most
>>> trams.  In the past 30 years, 25% of the trees planted globally were in
>>> China.  China is now safe, modern, convenient, colorful, free and happy.
>>> Whether it is the new crown or a natural disaster, the Chinese government
>>> can completely stop the economy and save people the first time.
>>>
>>> In a democratic country, there is an election every four to five years.
>>> What the hell is democracy?  When the election results come out, one side
>>> is happy and the other side is sad. This result can only be said to
>>> represent the will of a part of the people.  If it is a one-sided victory,
>>> then the result represents the will of most people, but isn't this a
>>> one-party ruling?  Because the voice of the opposition party is gone.
>>> Quite contradictory.  One-person, one-vote democracy is based on security,
>>> but an extremely negative system is inherently inadequate.  Just like a
>>> person, afraid of car accidents, so he doesn't take a car, he prefers to
>>> walk.  They said that democracy is good because the government can be
>>> changed, but in most cases, the soup can be changed without changing the
>>> medicine. After the previous government project was cancelled, the new
>>> government proposed new projects to pump oil and water.  On the first day
>>> the government was established, the country and the people were divided
>>> into parties and divided.  Some political parties also play racial issues
>>> to gain support.  With this kind of democracy, your achievements are
>>> tantamount to my disadvantage. Therefore, the better ideas you have, the
>>> less I oppose the party.  It is best if you do nothing, and I will have a
>>> chance next time.
>>>
>>> Democracy is like a couple who don’t trust each other. They find
>>> problems with each other. They quarrel for more time than taking care of
>>> their children. Will the children be happy?
>>> *I personally feel that it is not logical for the opposition party to do
>>> check and balance.  It should be done by a subject without such
>>> contradictory relations*.  I have never seen other countries like China
>>> where the people and the government have such a tacit understanding.
>>> Everyone seems to have a kind of family-like trust.  On the other hand, the
>>> content of the chat during the meal is to scold the government, and it is
>>> useless to scold him. Anyway, during his tenure, he is a legitimate
>>> dictator.
>>>
>>> A democratic country will not make long-term plans for the people,
>>> because he will not necessarily be in power next term.  After a five-year
>>> term, will they come up with a plan to see results in seven years?  No,
>>> because voters will say goodbye to them if they can't see the result within
>>> five years, so they will only do something to fill in.  At the time of the
>>> election, everything is agreed, but structural issues cannot be changed
>>> without drastic actions. In this political atmosphere, it is impossible to
>>> make drastic measures. Therefore, after the election, the promised things
>>> can only be ignored, and then do something about it.  Kung Fu deceives the
>>> people.  The people turned there, holding back, like boiling frogs in warm
>>> water, jumping to another pot and continuing to cook.  In China, you can do
>>> whatever you want, even the most difficult poverty problem can be solved.
>>> China's per capita GDP is only 1/5 of that of the United States, but the
>>> extreme poverty rate is less than 1%, compared to 12% in the United
>>> States.  It is conceivable how determined the Chinese government is.  The
>>> Chinese only look at the results. If the government does a poor job,
>>> internal doubts and internal adjustments will arise, because if they do not
>>> change, the situation will become serious. What awaits them is the billions
>>> of people uprooting the government and starting anew.
>>>
>>> Another Achilles heel of democracy is that when campaigning, people
>>> choose only by their impressions. Whoever puts in more propaganda and
>>> bragging will have a better chance of being elected.  For example, Trump,
>>> who has not even managed a village before, has become president.  Four
>>> years later, serious damage has been caused.
>>> When unidentified pneumonia appeared in the United States in July 2019,
>>> Trump blamed the problem on e-cigarettes and covered up the problem.
>>> China’s leadership is based on merit.  And accountability is very high, and
>>> those who make mistakes must take responsibility.
>>>
>>> The Chinese nation has always reached its peak in a centralized
>>> environment, such as the Han, Tang, and Song dynasties.  Only because of
>>> centralization can peace and peace can develop.  When there is more than
>>> one force, there will be struggle, without exception, such as: Three
>>> Kingdoms, Kuomintang-Communist Party, Warring States Period, Chu Han.
>>> Therefore, multi-party democracy is not suitable for China and there is no
>>> alternative.  In a small place like Taiwan, multi-party struggles are most
>>> often caused by fights in the parliament, and economic development is
>>> slow.  With a population of 1.4 billion in mainland China, the multi-party
>>> struggle will starve many people to death.
>>>
>>> Many people think that a one-party system is a dictatorship.  My
>>> democratic country, Malaysia, once had a corrupt dictator Mahathir who had
>>> been in power for 22 years.  Indonesia is also democratic. Suharto has been
>>> dictating for 30 years and embezzling for 30 years.  They win every
>>> election because they buy votes and control the media.  Singapore is a
>>> one-party leader, but it has one of the cleanest governments in the world.
>>> Libya is the richest country in Africa under the dictatorship of Gaddafi.
>>> After being "liberated" by NATO bombing, terrorists, refugees and black
>>> slaves breed.  The United States says it is democracy, but it is actually a
>>> capital dictatorship. Capital has one foot on one party, and everyone
>>> chooses it at will.  The bigger the consortium, the more it likes
>>> democracy, because the more money spent on election campaigns, the higher
>>> the chance of winning.
>>>
>>> So ideology is deceptive. Deng Xiaoping realized this, gave up the
>>> pursuit of ideology, and became pragmatic, and China has undergone
>>> earth-shaking changes.  China’s five-year plan is based on the data of this
>>> research institute and that research institute, and is drawn up in a
>>> scientific way and clearly written. The next five years are to complete
>>> tasks. If the leadership team is changed, the plan will remain unchanged.
>>> Of.  Is this a dictatorship?  Formulating policies based on facts and
>>> science is the best way to combat dictatorship.
>>>
>>> Westerners always talk about the Chinese communist.  What is the
>>> definition of communism?  "All assets are a system shared by society."  Is
>>> it like this in China now?  I have a Chinese colleague who owns more than
>>> 20 properties, a private enterprise.  Since Deng Xiaoping's black cat and
>>> white cat, China has stopped pursuing communism.  The current political
>>> system in China is: socialism + meritocracy + local democracy + Confucian
>>> values.  The economic system is: a mixed market economy (state-owned
>>> capital + private capital).  Capitalism only recognizes one thing: profit.
>>> It does not care about social welfare.  But the powerful aspect of capital
>>> is economic power, like a powerful engine.  The American system, capital
>>> first, is like a sports car without a brake system, so there are many rich
>>> people, and many people live under the bridge.  China uses a market economy
>>> on the basis of socialism, which not only takes care of the poor, but also
>>> allows capital to drive the economy.  It is a car with an engine, a
>>> steering wheel, and a brake system.  China refers to the ancient imperial
>>> examination system and promotes talents. A "big talk" like Trump cannot be
>>> a leader in China.  In addition, at the village level, the people have the
>>> right to vote.  Generally speaking, the whole system follows the Confucian
>>> culture: loving the people, loyal to the country, loyal to one's post,
>>> filial piety to the elders, and so on.
>>> The Chinese system has a traditional side and an adaptive side.  In
>>> China, the people cannot change the government, but the system is always
>>> changing.  In the United States, people can change governments, but the
>>> system remains the same.  If you have to give the Chinese system an
>>> acronym, I think it should be called Whateverworkism.
>>>
>>> Is the Chinese system the best in the world?  It can only be said that
>>> it is most suitable for China.  The Nordic system is called Social
>>> democracy. It is more successful in implementing democracy based on
>>> socialist values ​​because it suits them.  The liberal democracy of world
>>> powers such as the United States, Britain, France, and India is obviously
>>> not good.  Negativity, demonstrations, strikes, large gaps between the rich
>>> and the poor.  The biggest mistake of the world is that when the country
>>> does not advance, it still sticks to its ideology and does not want to
>>> change.  It is ridiculous that the United States also wants to impose its
>>> bad system on other countries.  I have to admire the Chinese government.
>>> Under the pressure of the world's ideology, it still insists on taking the
>>> path that it thinks is correct.  After the Tiananmen Square incident, the
>>> Chinese government endured the humiliation and did not refute the rumors to
>>> the outside world and made silent efforts.  After the Hong Kong riots, we
>>> learned that Tiananmen Square was actually done by the United States, and
>>> it really felt unfair for the Communist Party.
>>>
>>> In human history, the rise of powers in the past, whether it is ancient
>>> Greece, the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Japanese Empire, Germany,
>>> or the U.S., was accompanied by wars, casualties, colonization, plunder,
>>> and slavery.  In 1979, China’s per capita GDP was a bit lower than India’s,
>>> and now it is five times that of India. China’s rise is greater than that
>>> of any empire, but China has not sent a bullet to other countries for more
>>> than 30 years.  Not only that, but China's development has also driven the
>>> global economy.  China’s success lies in its: peace-based, people’s
>>> interests, long-term planning, scientific management, results-oriented, and
>>> a sense of crisis.  Deng Xiaoping made some people rich first, and Xi
>>> Jinping helped the poor. After two generations of leadership, China's
>>> policy is still so coherent.  This is the effect of scientific governance
>>> of the country.  Regardless of what is said outside, the achievements of
>>> the Communist Party are facts before our eyes.
>>>
>>> For most of the past two thousand years, China was the strongest and
>>> most advanced country in the world, but in the past two hundred years
>>> because of opium, China missed the Industrial Revolution and was forced to
>>> catch up.  The IQ per capita in China is 105, and that of Westerners is
>>> 95.  China has a large population and is hardworking, no worse than
>>> Westerners.  Westerners now account for only 14% of the global population,
>>> but they account for 56% of the world’s wealth.  So it’s not difficult to
>>> understand that when Westerners don’t like us, it means that we are doing
>>> it right.
>>> All Chinese children and grandchildren, come on!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>>> Grup.
>>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/BAE93D8B318F492988DF5A8353710CA3%40A10Live
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/BAE93D8B318F492988DF5A8353710CA3%40A10Live?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>>> Grup.
>>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPQDc_1tepk2D2mZ_BuN%2BySidbBfGNG43kzKGocejDR8LA%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPQDc_1tepk2D2mZ_BuN%2BySidbBfGNG43kzKGocejDR8LA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>> --
>>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>>> Grup.
>>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/1291225709.997205.1639465638965%40mail.yahoo.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/1291225709.997205.1639465638965%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>>> Grup.
>>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CAGjSX2Ax25pyBZ00ySZc6U72me4xGDLuOeo2BVn%3Dbg-VM3Yt9w%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CAGjSX2Ax25pyBZ00ySZc6U72me4xGDLuOeo2BVn%3Dbg-VM3Yt9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>>> Grup.
>>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/FE610F92824B40DAB049309FAF9012DA%40A10Live
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/FE610F92824B40DAB049309FAF9012DA%40A10Live?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>> Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google
>> Grup.
>> Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini,
>> kirim email ke [email protected].
>> Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPR7%3Div9h%2BJe02nYLwpau8z2BsyWGGLVSmB1_8Z_t5Wa6g%40mail.gmail.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPR7%3Div9h%2BJe02nYLwpau8z2BsyWGGLVSmB1_8Z_t5Wa6g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

-- 
Anda menerima pesan ini karena Anda berlangganan grup "GELORA45" dari Google 
Grup.
Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim 
email ke [email protected].
Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CAG8tavi3-ifErzotLNo%3DN9ShYyV2bFxbzXc%3DikbBcsCHVQuL1w%40mail.gmail.com.

Reply via email to