Dunia sudah lain jaman segala teori lama............. Udah memasuki AI.....
Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu., Dec. 16, 2021 at 7:28 a.m., Chan CT<[email protected]> wrote: <!--#yiv5232339945 _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv5232339945 #yiv5232339945 p.yiv5232339945MsoNormal, #yiv5232339945 li.yiv5232339945MsoNormal, #yiv5232339945 div.yiv5232339945MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv5232339945 h1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;}#yiv5232339945 a:link, #yiv5232339945 span.yiv5232339945MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5232339945 span.yiv5232339945DefaultFontHxMailStyle {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none none;}#yiv5232339945 span.yiv5232339945Heading1Char {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;font-weight:bold;}#yiv5232339945 .yiv5232339945MsoChpDefault {} _filtered {}#yiv5232339945 div.yiv5232339945WordSection1 {}-->Iyaaa, ... BETUUUL! Demokrasi liberal yang sudah anerkis seperti yang terjadi dimasa RBKP, 1966-1976 sudah berakhir! Dan TIDAK AKAN TERJADI kembali di Tiongkok, ...! Demokrasi yang ada dan terjadi di Tiongkok sekarang ini hanyalah demokrasi RAKYAT, yang sepenuhnya berorientasi pada RAKYAT dan sepenuhnya untuk RAKYAT! Begitulah yang didemonstrasdikan PKT dalam waktu sekitar 70 hari BERHASIL mengatasi dan mengendalikan pandemi COvid-19 yang pertama muncul di Wuhan, ... dan memulai kembali kehidupan normal, mulai kerja produksi penuh secara berangsur! From: Tatiana Lukman Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 6:54 PMTo: kh djie ; Jaya Suprana Cc: BILLY GUNADIE ; Tjing Siauw ; Sunny ambon ; Indra Azali ; GELORA45_In Subject: RE: [GELORA45] In China, democracy is "people-oriented." Bicara soal demokrasi tanpa menghubungkannya dengan sistem ekonomi dan mode of production yang berdominasi di suatu negeri sama saja dengan bohong! Orang yang belum/tidak mengikuti nasehat Bung Karno tentang penggunaan Marxisme sebagai pisau tajam dalam menganalisis gejala ekonomi/politik/sosial, jadi tidak tahu menahu tentang Marxisme, dapat dimaafkan kalua tidak tahu bahwa dasar ekonomi menentukan bangunan atas dan demokrasi merupakan salah satu aspeknya. Tapi kalua orang yang pernah mengaku paling M-L, lantas bla—bla tentang demokrasi tanpa melihat system ekonomi alias mode of production, ya itulah namanya revisionis!!! Mengapa Deng Xiao-ping dengan kokoh tidak pernah mau bicara tentang mode of production yang berdominasi di china sejak dia melakukan reformasi kapitalisnya?? Segoblok-gobloknya Deng Xiao-ping, namun ia tahu apa resiko besarnya kalua masalah mode of production didiskusikan… Karena, dengan demikian dia harus mengakui dengan blak-blakan bahwa kapitalisme lah yang sedang ia bangun…Dimana ada perampasan nilai lebih yang diciptakan kaum buruh, berarti ada penghisapan manusia atas manusia, dan disitulah mode of production kapitalis yang berlaku… Mengingkari itu berarti merevisi teorinya Marx tentang kapitalisme… Demokrasi di china berorientasi rakyat???? Ha…ha… itulah pendapat orang yang tidak mau melihat, apalagi meneliti bagaimana kongkritnya kehidupan dan kondisi kerja kaum buruh Tiongkok yang sama sekali tidak berhak mendirikan Serikat buruh independen (ingat penindasan buruh Jasic dan kaum muda kiri/Maois di Shenzhen!!). Coba pikirkan dengan pakai logika/common sens, mengapa kaum revisionis perlu menghapus 4 Besar: bebas bicara, bebas mengajukan pendapat, bebas berdiskusi, bebas menulis koran dinding berhuruf besar???? Dapatkah 4 kebebasan itu dipraktekkan sekarang di China atau di Indonesia??? Apakah itu bukan manifestasi dari ketakutan kaum remo terhadap rakyatnya kalua mereka dibolehkan mempraktekkan 4 Besar itu?? Ha…ha.. mereka bias pakai argumentasi, ah itu akan menimbulkan kekacauan seperti RBKP!! Kekacauan bagi siapa?? Bagi penguasa dan kaum kapitalis, bukan??? Mereka ingin ‘stabilitas politik’ supaya rakyat menurut saja diperas dan dihisap, demi “pembangunan”… Membangun dengan memeras dan menghisap, menginjak-injak hak demokratis rakyat pekerja, itulah yang dikerjakan kaum kapitalis, bukan kaum komunis sejati!!! Di China, bahkan kaum kapitalis besarnya pun harus berhati-hati, tutup mulut, dan jangan terlalu besar sehingga membahayakan monopoli negara yang dikuasai kaum revisionis!! Kalau tidak, resiko “dihilangkan dengan paksa”mengintai !! Kaum kapitalis besar Indonesia lebih beruntung, bias berbuat seenak perutnya sendiri, karena dapat perlindungan dari Kabir dan komprador di pemerintah… Tak heranlah kalau kaum kapitalis China berbondong-bondong untuk berbisnis di negeri-negeri Asia, Afrika dan Amerika latin, di mana mereka bias berbuat seenak eprutnya sendiri karena dengan menyogok para kompradornya, licinlah jalan untuk mendapatkan incredible profit!! Kan itu juga yang dijanjikan Jokowi ketika mulai bertahta… Kalau ingin dengan jujur dan objektif menilai dan memahami sepak terjang China, jangan hanya pasang kuping pada pernyataan dan pidato Kaisar Xi serta para pejabat resminya dong!!! Terdapat satu Gudang tulisan dan buku dalam berbagai Bahasa, yang serius meneliti dan mempelajari Tiongkok, untuk dipakai sebagai bahan pertimbangan… Sent from Mail for Windows From: kh djie Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 12:50 PM To: Jaya Suprana Cc: BILLY GUNADIE; Tjing Siauw; Sunny ambon; Indra Azali; GELORA45_In Subject: Re: [GELORA45] In China, democracy is "people-oriented." Pikir2 A Hok lebih beruntung dari Socrates............ Op wo 15 dec. 2021 om 12:47 schreef kh djie <[email protected]>: Socrates dihukum mati, korban demokrasi : https://www.hukum-hukum.com/2020/07/bahaya-racun-mematikan-demokrasi.html Zaman sekarang demokrasi digerogoti oleh liberalisme sepertri yang terjadi di Amerika sekarang. Beberapa % orang gterkaya yang menguasai mass media dapat menentukan hasil pemilihan umum yang "demokratis" ( one man one vote" ). Demokrasi masih jalan cukup baik di negeri2 kecil seperti Finlandia dll. Op wo 15 dec. 2021 om 10:53 schreef Jaya Suprana <[email protected]>: DEMOKRASI BANYAK-MUKA 😁 Pada tanggal Rab, 15 Des 2021 pukul 09.15 BILLY GUNADIE <[email protected]> menulis: Kelihatanya Demokrasi itu banyak mukanya.... Cocok apa yang dikatakan Oleh Socrates...Demokrasi Barat... Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue., Dec. 14, 2021 at 8:50 p.m., Chan CT <[email protected]> wrote: Diakui atau tidak, dalam kenyataan kehidupan masyarakat yang konkrit dihadapi, yang jalankan sistem multi partai didunia ini, makin banyak parpol bukan membuktikan makin “demokrasi”, sebaliknya membuktikan makin terjadi PERPECAHAN dalam masyarakat itu! Artinya, BELUM ada satu PARTAI pun yang berhasil MEMPERSATUKAN mayoritas mutlak rakyat disitu! Dalam kenyataaan, rakyat masih terpecah, terkotak-kotak dalam kepentingan-kepentingan banyak parpol yang ada, ...! Lalu, begitu menekankan jalankan sistem demokrasi dengan pemilu, yang terjadi pertarungan antar kepentingan parpol. BUKAN mengutamakan dan memprioritaskan kepentingan rakyat banyak! Pergantian kekuasaan yang terjadi, hanyalah manifestasi kemenangan kepentingan dan pergantian kelompok oligarki yang satu ke yang lain. BUKAN dan tidak pernah betul-betul mewakili kepentingan rakyat banyak. Sebaliknya kepentingan rakyat banyak selalu yang dikebawahkan kalau tidak hendak menyatakan yang DIKORBANKAN! Itulah yang terjadi dinegara-negara yang mengaku negara “DEMOKRASI”, khususnya Amerika itu, ... Berbeda dengan RRT, Republik Rakyat Tiongkok yang baru saja melewati ultah ke-70 dan 100 tahun PKT nya itu, bukan saja membuktikan kejayaan Jalan Sosialisme Berkarakter Tiongkok yang ditempuh, tapi juga kehebatan DEMOKRASI yang dijalankan Tiongkok dengan sistim PKT, partai tunggal yang menjalankan pemerintah dan berhasil mendapatkan dukungan lebih 90% 1,4 milyar Rakyat Tiongkok! Dan, tentunya dengan keberhasilan pembangunan ekonomi, teknologi, kekuatan militer dan budaya yang menakjubkan dunia itu, ... Dalam mengatasi dan mengendalikan pandemi Covid-19 yang pertama merebak di Wuhan, sumbangan vaksin pada dunia dan membebaskan lebih 700 juta rakyatnya dari kemiskinan-absolut, ....! Membuat rakyat Tiongkok hidup lebih sejahtera dan bahagia, ...! Canadian vlogger: China's people's democracy makes people's lives better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQYQIzl28WQ From: BILLY GUNADIE Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 7:11 AM To: [email protected] ; Indra Azali Cc: Chan CT ; Jaya Suprana ; GELORA45_In Subject: Re: [GELORA45] In China, democracy is "people-oriented." Apakah die Partei Immer recht? Sent from Rogers Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue., Dec. 14, 2021 at 4:15 a.m., Sunny ambon <[email protected]> wrote: Die Partei hat immer Recht. On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 8:07 AM 'Indra Azali' via GELORA45 <[email protected]> wrote: China has tried multiparty in the past. it does not reform for people so election of multiparty did not work and cost to much energy and money for media campaigned and hoax. And China use selection process from party village to top level of 2.5 million CPC party member. Does China select professional that are not yet Cpc member. That is part of option While Indonesia is multiparty yet the direction of nation is based populous religion not people center in different region. So the consolidation of party become executive to keep changing the executive ministerial quota. That is only between political elite for quota. On Monday, December 13, 2021, 08:08:49 PM GMT+7, Jaya Suprana <[email protected]> wrote: NOT THE ONLY ONE PARTY ORIENTED ? 😁 Pada tanggal Sen, 13 Des 2021 pukul 10.45 Chan CT <[email protected]> menulis: *Good article sharing* In China, democracy is "people-oriented." I am Malaysian Chinese. When my grandfather was young, he used to fight with the horses in the forests of the Malay Peninsula, so he didn't have a good impression of the Communist Party. In 1998, I came to China to do mobile network. At that time, Beijing still used donkey carts to collect wastewater. I saw farmers driving ducks on the side of the road. The fruit vendor downstairs in the hotel asked me if I wanted a young lady. Later, China was the same year after year. During these 23 years, I witnessed China's development and witnessed with my own eyes what the Communist Party did for the people. Many democracies are actually "you, the people, we lead." In China, democracy is "people-oriented." For example, there is a 12345 hotline in China. After the people call it, government personnel will follow this case, and then the timing will start. For example, the roadside was very noisy, and the soundproof fence was installed soon. Problems that cannot be solved will be entered into the system's big data. Once the government finds that this is a common problem, it will issue a policy to solve similar problems all at once. The central government also judges the performance of local governments based on big data and the efficiency of local governments in solving problems. This is democracy, democracy that operates every day. Is it better to give feedback to the government than to demonstrate? Regardless of infrastructure, social security, people's livelihood, environment, and greening issues, the government did it before the people said it. No one said that high-speed rail is needed, and the high-speed rail is here. The 300 km/h speed is still hot, the 600 km/h speed is coming soon. Capitals like Ant Financial who want to harvest future money are controlled by the government before the people find out. In order to solve the pollution problem, the government heavily subsidizes tram factories and develops trams. China is now the country with the most trams. In the past 30 years, 25% of the trees planted globally were in China. China is now safe, modern, convenient, colorful, free and happy. Whether it is the new crown or a natural disaster, the Chinese government can completely stop the economy and save people the first time. In a democratic country, there is an election every four to five years. What the hell is democracy? When the election results come out, one side is happy and the other side is sad. This result can only be said to represent the will of a part of the people. If it is a one-sided victory, then the result represents the will of most people, but isn't this a one-party ruling? Because the voice of the opposition party is gone. Quite contradictory. One-person, one-vote democracy is based on security, but an extremely negative system is inherently inadequate. Just like a person, afraid of car accidents, so he doesn't take a car, he prefers to walk. They said that democracy is good because the government can be changed, but in most cases, the soup can be changed without changing the medicine. After the previous government project was cancelled, the new government proposed new projects to pump oil and water. On the first day the government was established, the country and the people were divided into parties and divided. Some political parties also play racial issues to gain support. With this kind of democracy, your achievements are tantamount to my disadvantage. Therefore, the better ideas you have, the less I oppose the party. It is best if you do nothing, and I will have a chance next time. Democracy is like a couple who don’t trust each other. They find problems with each other. They quarrel for more time than taking care of their children. Will the children be happy? *I personally feel that it is not logical for the opposition party to do check and balance. It should be done by a subject without such contradictory relations*. I have never seen other countries like China where the people and the government have such a tacit understanding. Everyone seems to have a kind of family-like trust. On the other hand, the content of the chat during the meal is to scold the government, and it is useless to scold him. Anyway, during his tenure, he is a legitimate dictator. A democratic country will not make long-term plans for the people, because he will not necessarily be in power next term. After a five-year term, will they come up with a plan to see results in seven years? No, because voters will say goodbye to them if they can't see the result within five years, so they will only do something to fill in. At the time of the election, everything is agreed, but structural issues cannot be changed without drastic actions. In this political atmosphere, it is impossible to make drastic measures. Therefore, after the election, the promised things can only be ignored, and then do something about it. Kung Fu deceives the people. The people turned there, holding back, like boiling frogs in warm water, jumping to another pot and continuing to cook. In China, you can do whatever you want, even the most difficult poverty problem can be solved. China's per capita GDP is only 1/5 of that of the United States, but the extreme poverty rate is less than 1%, compared to 12% in the United States. It is conceivable how determined the Chinese government is. The Chinese only look at the results. If the government does a poor job, internal doubts and internal adjustments will arise, because if they do not change, the situation will become serious. What awaits them is the billions of people uprooting the government and starting anew. Another Achilles heel of democracy is that when campaigning, people choose only by their impressions. Whoever puts in more propaganda and bragging will have a better chance of being elected. For example, Trump, who has not even managed a village before, has become president. Four years later, serious damage has been caused. When unidentified pneumonia appeared in the United States in July 2019, Trump blamed the problem on e-cigarettes and covered up the problem. China’s leadership is based on merit. And accountability is very high, and those who make mistakes must take responsibility. The Chinese nation has always reached its peak in a centralized environment, such as the Han, Tang, and Song dynasties. Only because of centralization can peace and peace can develop. When there is more than one force, there will be struggle, without exception, such as: Three Kingdoms, Kuomintang-Communist Party, Warring States Period, Chu Han. Therefore, multi-party democracy is not suitable for China and there is no alternative. In a small place like Taiwan, multi-party struggles are most often caused by fights in the parliament, and economic development is slow. With a population of 1.4 billion in mainland China, the multi-party struggle will starve many people to death. Many people think that a one-party system is a dictatorship. My democratic country, Malaysia, once had a corrupt dictator Mahathir who had been in power for 22 years. Indonesia is also democratic. Suharto has been dictating for 30 years and embezzling for 30 years. They win every election because they buy votes and control the media. Singapore is a one-party leader, but it has one of the cleanest governments in the world. Libya is the richest country in Africa under the dictatorship of Gaddafi. After being "liberated" by NATO bombing, terrorists, refugees and black slaves breed. The United States says it is democracy, but it is actually a capital dictatorship. Capital has one foot on one party, and everyone chooses it at will. The bigger the consortium, the more it likes democracy, because the more money spent on election campaigns, the higher the chance of winning. So ideology is deceptive. Deng Xiaoping realized this, gave up the pursuit of ideology, and became pragmatic, and China has undergone earth-shaking changes. China’s five-year plan is based on the data of this research institute and that research institute, and is drawn up in a scientific way and clearly written. The next five years are to complete tasks. If the leadership team is changed, the plan will remain unchanged. Of. Is this a dictatorship? Formulating policies based on facts and science is the best way to combat dictatorship. Westerners always talk about the Chinese communist. What is the definition of communism? "All assets are a system shared by society." Is it like this in China now? I have a Chinese colleague who owns more than 20 properties, a private enterprise. Since Deng Xiaoping's black cat and white cat, China has stopped pursuing communism. The current political system in China is: socialism + meritocracy + local democracy + Confucian values. The economic system is: a mixed market economy (state-owned capital + private capital). Capitalism only recognizes one thing: profit. It does not care about social welfare. But the powerful aspect of capital is economic power, like a powerful engine. The American system, capital first, is like a sports car without a brake system, so there are many rich people, and many people live under the bridge. China uses a market economy on the basis of socialism, which not only takes care of the poor, but also allows capital to drive the economy. It is a car with an engine, a steering wheel, and a brake system. China refers to the ancient imperial examination system and promotes talents. A "big talk" like Trump cannot be a leader in China. In addition, at the village level, the people have the right to vote. Generally speaking, the whole system follows the Confucian culture: loving the people, loyal to the country, loyal to one's post, filial piety to the elders, and so on. The Chinese system has a traditional side and an adaptive side. In China, the people cannot change the government, but the system is always changing. In the United States, people can change governments, but the system remains the same. If you have to give the Chinese system an acronym, I think it should be called Whateverworkism. Is the Chinese system the best in the world? It can only be said that it is most suitable for China. The Nordic system is called Social democracy. It is more successful in implementing democracy based on socialist values because it suits them. The liberal democracy of world powers such as the United States, Britain, France, and India is obviously not good. Negativity, demonstrations, strikes, large gaps between the rich and the poor. The biggest mistake of the world is that when the country does not advance, it still sticks to its ideology and does not want to change. It is ridiculous that the United States also wants to impose its bad system on other countries. I have to admire the Chinese government. Under the pressure of the world's ideology, it still insists on taking the path that it thinks is correct. After the Tiananmen Square incident, the Chinese government endured the humiliation and did not refute the rumors to the outside world and made silent efforts. After the Hong Kong riots, we learned that Tiananmen Square was actually done by the United States, and it really felt unfair for the Communist Party. In human history, the rise of powers in the past, whether it is ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the Japanese Empire, Germany, or the U.S., was accompanied by wars, casualties, colonization, plunder, and slavery. In 1979, China’s per capita GDP was a bit lower than India’s, and now it is five times that of India. China’s rise is greater than that of any empire, but China has not sent a bullet to other countries for more than 30 years. Not only that, but China's development has also driven the global economy. China’s success lies in its: peace-based, people’s interests, long-term planning, scientific management, results-oriented, and a sense of crisis. Deng Xiaoping made some people rich first, and Xi Jinping helped the poor. After two generations of leadership, China's policy is still so coherent. This is the effect of scientific governance of the country. Regardless of what is said outside, the achievements of the Communist Party are facts before our eyes. For most of the past two thousand years, China was the strongest and most advanced country in the world, but in the past two hundred years because of opium, China missed the Industrial Revolution and was forced to catch up. The IQ per capita in China is 105, and that of Westerners is 95. China has a large population and is hardworking, no worse than Westerners. Westerners now account for only 14% of the global population, but they account for 56% of the world’s wealth. So it’s not difficult to understand that when Westerners don’t like us, it means that we are doing it right. All Chinese children and grandchildren, come on! -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/BAE93D8B318F492988DF5A8353710CA3%40A10Live. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPQDc_1tepk2D2mZ_BuN%2BySidbBfGNG43kzKGocejDR8LA%40mail.gmail.com. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/1291225709.997205.1639465638965%40mail.yahoo.com. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CAGjSX2Ax25pyBZ00ySZc6U72me4xGDLuOeo2BVn%3Dbg-VM3Yt9w%40mail.gmail.com. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/FE610F92824B40DAB049309FAF9012DA%40A10Live. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CALcuTPR7%3Div9h%2BJe02nYLwpau8z2BsyWGGLVSmB1_8Z_t5Wa6g%40mail.gmail.com. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/CAG8tavi3-ifErzotLNo%3DN9ShYyV2bFxbzXc%3DikbBcsCHVQuL1w%40mail.gmail.com. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena berlangganan grup "GELORA45" di Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/C80726B811F446F792440C92704CB4DA%40A10Live. -- Anda menerima pesan ini karena Anda berlangganan grup "GELORA45" dari Google Grup. Untuk berhenti berlangganan dan berhenti menerima email dari grup ini, kirim email ke [email protected]. Untuk melihat diskusi ini di web, kunjungi https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/gelora1945/1772741425.1233375.1639660725823%40mail.yahoo.com.
