Hi everyone, This discussion has provided a lot of information to me, not least of which is that Brian has supplied a polling tool that I had know idea existed!
Listening to the different points of view, I think that I will drop the 'mathematical' from the opening line because I actually prefer Henry's wording of 'J is a language for describing computation', although I am also thinking about 'J is a language for quickly getting a computer to do what you want'. I also know that mathematics will be brought up in a friendlier way later in the script. I have a section that shows the rational type in action and the ways that that can make fractional arithmetic easier. The rational section is based on this previous video of mine https://youtu.be/9_j4iMeAa7s and think that it's content will appeal to both math phobics, who would want an easier way to work with fractions, and philics who might see it as a way to explore continued fractions in a more intuitive way. I think that the main purpose of this video will be to give someone who has not seen J before just enough interest that they will investigate further. This is why I have referred to it as a billboard video. If we find we have a number of audiences we are trying to attract, it may be an idea to provide different billboards, although we would be relying on the audience to self select the billboard of interest. I am not suggesting that is what we do, I am just presenting an alternative. My preference is one video that is general enough to appeal and interest anyone who may have a use for the language. Anyway thanks for all of the input. In these areas, more discussion is useful for the diversity of views. Cheers, bob > On Jan 23, 2022, at 13:40, 'Pascal Jasmin' via General > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Not just to back up Henry publicly, but > > J is a great "information theory" language suitably replacing sql. Sql is > not "marketed" as math. While q/k is marketed for "information theory", J is > more powerful, and, I've found, easily enhanced to provide q's syntactic > sugar for information processing. J's user defined modifiers are power. > Power that goes well beyond sql/q/k and beyond "just math". So, the > "computational" adjective is deserved, IMO. > > > > > > On Sunday, January 23, 2022, 01:38:20 p.m. EST, Henry Rich > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Couldn't it be that J is used by mathematical programmers because it's > touted as a mathematical language? > > Most of the population of the US considers math 'too hard' and will not > touch anything tainted by it. I think programmers (in the US) by and > large share this tendency. > > And I disagree that people doing non-math will use non-J. I use J for > simulations, games, and pretty much everything where I get to choose the > language. I use it for the productivity, not the mathiness. > > In fact, I've never been able to use J to do real math, that is, to > prove theorems. It's a notation of computation, not a notation of > mathematics. A tool of thought, not a tool of proof. I can use J to > help with understanding a problem, but I don't have a big enough set of > identities to make it valuable in proof. > > J is especially good for math people, but it's not caviar to the > general. Un-mathy highschool students can be writing useful J programs > in a few days - much faster than with Java. > > Henry Rich > > On 1/23/2022 1:04 PM, Michail L. Liarmakopoulos wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Personally I think that while J is a general purpose language, it surely >> attracts more mathematically oriented programmers. >> >> Also I think the definition Bob mentioned earlier stems from the fact that >> J is linked to APL and to the "notation as a tool of thought" of Ken. >> >> So I don't think that mentioning or promoting the mathematical edge that >> the language has (that makes it a strong competitor to python+numpy, Julia >> or R) is a disadvantage. >> >> Programmers not interested in solving mathematical problems on a computer >> will choose a different language either way, such as C, C++, Java, python, >> Golang, etc. >> >> Best, >> Michail >> >> --- >> Michail L. Liarmakopoulos, MSc >> >> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022, 17:32 Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 10:41 AM Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> I strongly recommend removing the word 'mathematical' from the >>>> one-line description of J. Most programmers are not highly, or >>>> even moderately, mathematical, and people will be afraid that J is >>>> for somebody else. >>> Many are not, but many are. >>> >>> That said, those that are almost invariably have a specific focus >>> (machine learning, finance, statistics, graphics, logistics, etc.) >>> >>> And, mathematics is itself a huge field where individuals invariably >>> specialize in their own niche. >>> >>> (So I am not disagreeing with your recommendation -- I am instead >>> thinking that the mathematical aspects need some focus and specifics >>> to be relevant.) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Raul >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
