Thanks Chris, Mea culpa. You’re right and I’m wrong and we’ll look into fixing the release process so PPMC only are binding.
I will work with the project on its community. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 22, 2022, at 12:57 AM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > > Sooo … assuming we let Tuweni graduate, > > If you could only release with binding votes from the incubator. > How would you be able to release without it? > > Because technically as a TLP there is nowhere, where you could get those > missing votes. > > And if a project can’t release because there are too little PMC members able > to vote, that’s the direct path to the Attic. > > So please invest some time and effort into growing and engaging your > community. > Trust them with making changes and decisions. > Promote your project publicly and promote that people are welcome to come and > contribute. > Offer them to be their mentor for their first contributions. > > That’s my advice and happy to chat if you want some help with that all. > (Help like in guidance, not help, like in doing the work) > > Chris > > From: Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> > Date: Thursday, 22. December 2022 at 08:48 > To: general <general@incubator.apache.org> > Subject: Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > > >> On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the >> board will accept it. >> >> Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC >> doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. >> The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and >> to grow its community into a sustainable project. >> I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is >> completely missing. >> >> I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from >> contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects >> are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. >> So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the >> community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. >> >> The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors >> >> Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? >> Also did I have a look at your last release thread: >> There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno >> Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. >> A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release >> wasn’t ok. > Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general > incubator list where it was duly voted. > >> >> I think this project should focus on building the community, having others >> be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for >> graduation. >> >> Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 >> >> So here goes: >> >> -1 binding >> >> Chris >> >> >> From: Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> >> Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 >> To: general <general@incubator.apache.org> >> Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >> Folks, >> >> Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. >> >> The results are as follows: >> +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) >> +0: 0 >> -1: 0 >> >> Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and >> drafting a resolution for the board. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> wrote: >>> >>> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance >>> for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Antoine >>> >>>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer <j...@joshfischer.io> wrote: >>>> >>>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >>>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >>>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >>>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >>>> >>>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >>>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >>>> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >>>> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >>>> >>>> >>>> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >>>> >>>> - Josh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry for asking, >>>>> >>>>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>>>> understand what you wanted to say >>>>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>>>> it). >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> From: Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> >>>>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> >>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>>>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>>>> checking. >>>>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>>>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Willem Jiang >>>>>> >>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme <anto...@toulme.name> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello folks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >>>>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >>>>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it >>>>> has >>>>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >>>>> all incubation checks. >>>>>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and >>>>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have >>>>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received >>>>> contributions. >>>>> I expect this trend to continue and mature. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is >>>>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and >>>>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and >>>>> move >>>>> away from the project. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >>>>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to >>>>> attract contributors on our own. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have >>>>> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their >>>>> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the >>>>> incubator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience >>>>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's >>>>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the >>>>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antoine >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with >>>>> considerable >>>>>>>> adoption falter. >>>>>>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a >>>>> contributing >>>>>>>> factor here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and >>>>> encountering >>>>>>>> attrition is different from TLP >>>>>>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project >>>>> while >>>>>>>> others can fall off in a healthy way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases >>>>>>>> demonstrates contributors in the community >>>>>>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < >>>>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in >>>>> which >>>>>>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >>>>>>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >>>>>>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just my opinion on this topic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >>>>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>>>>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >>>>>>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >>>>>>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >>>>>>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited >>>>>>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and >>>>>>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make >>>>>>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much >>>>>>>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond >>>>>>>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces >>>>>>>>> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. >>>>>>>>>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 >>>>> releases. >>>>>>>>>> There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the >>>>>>>>> mentors >>>>>>>>>> and contributors on the private list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The nature of this project is that the consumption of these >>>>> libraries are >>>>>>>>>> going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may >>>>> grow >>>>>>>>>> larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases >>>>>>>>>> within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, >>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>> The long term success will require a larger active community but I >>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>> think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have >>>>> been >>>>>>>>> met. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is >>>>> relatively >>>>>>>>> high. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Willem Jiang >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>>>>>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang <lgcar...@apache.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme >>>>>>>>> self, >>>>>>>>>>>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors >>>>>>>>>>>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Antoine Toulme <toulm...@apache.org> 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator >>>>>>>>>>>>> Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>>>>> received. >>>>>>>>>>>>> After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community >>>>>>>>> [1], we >>>>>>>>>>>>> have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote >>>>>>>>> result >>>>>>>>>>>>> was published [3]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating >>>>>>>>> Apache >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please provide your vote accordingly: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator. >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] +0 No opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least 72 hours. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> vote. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Community* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> mentors. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of >>>>>>>>> committers >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> 14 from 12 different >>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Project* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> aid >>>>>>>>>>>>> development of blockchain and other decentralized software in >>>>>>>>> Java and >>>>>>>>>>>>> other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, >>>>>>>>>>> serialization >>>>>>>>>>>>> and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography >>>>>>>>> functions >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is >>>>>>>>> developed >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> JDK 11 or higher. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 >>>>>>>>>>>>> months. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● The release cadence is about 3 months. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Brand, License, and Copyright* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been >>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewed and approved. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all >>>>> modules >>>>>>>>>>>>> code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the >>>>>>>>>>>>> dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues >>>>> [10]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to >>>>>>>>> date. >>>>>>>>>>>>> ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation >>>>>>>>>>>>> requirements [12]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk >>>>>>>>>>>>> [3] >>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 >>>>>>>>>>>>> [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases >>>>>>>>>>>>> [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls >>>>>>>>>>>>> [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues >>>>>>>>>>>>> [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 >>>>>>>>>>>>> [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE >>>>>>>>>>>>> [11] https://tuweni.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> DolphinScheduler PMC >>>>>>>>>>>> Gang Li 李岗 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> lgcar...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from A Mobile Device >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
