> -----Original Message----- > From: Leo Simons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > another lenghty post, so I'll start with a summary: > > - color variations (and all other l&f changes) should be > part of the original look-and-feel design. Giving > programmers free reign to do this spells disaster. > It would be best to have the original designer of a > look and feel work this out. Very strictly.
:( Seriously, I don't dig the big blue background. With projects like Batik, we can generate images that fit with any background color. Let me say this plainly: color should be flexible to a point. The background color for the main text area must be white and the main text color should be black. The color customization whould be in the project header. > - the navigation setup we currently have sucks. The > one used by turbine right now is slightly better, > but only slightly. We need arbitrarily deep levels. > The best option is a breadcrumb trail. Yes and no. The Breadcrumb trail + the Maven approach would be ideal. It is easier to get a grip on what is available without having to go back to the parent level each time. You should at least see all peers. > > here's the elaboration: > > Look and Feel > ------------- > (replying to: > > > 2) Project color-scheme > > > > No problem :-) > ) > > IMHO, look and feel variations should be designed into the > template by the original designer, then set in stone. When > you say flexible with color, I find that scary. When its "the > background color of a locations also containing images", > that's a lot of work as well (ie the blue bar on the maven > site) as we work with anti-aliased images which you need > to duplicate for each color change. > I know a bit about this as I was on the team that had to > tackle this for www.planet.nl. Rather than having some > programmers talk about this, I'd much rather have the > original designer propose exactly what parts of the layout > can change to what colors. And I have designed several web applications, and also am well versed in site design and color customization. I even created a demo site to generate logos and other images on the fly--even when the background was a different color. Anti-aliased images won't really be a problem. > > I hope I don't offend anyone too much when I state that, > generally speaking, programmers (and other technical people) > are really bad at designing intuitive interfaces. Jakarta is > no exception. But they like simple color schemes--which is what I would want. Many sites include a customized color depending on what major part of the site you are visiting (my.yahoo.com, mail.yahoo.com, etc.) > > Navigation structure > -------------------- > I proposed a breadcrumb trail in my earlier post. Those work well, but keep in mind that we need to make all peers available as well. > > Berin: > > > The question then becomes how do we make Maven's > organization expand > > > to Jakarta-site3? One thing that we must understand is that > > > sub-projects can have sub-projects. Jakarta Commons, Jakarta > > > Sandbox, Avalon Excalibur, and Avalon Apps all attest to that. > > Jason: > > You can look at the Turbine layout sites for an example of > what we've > > done. > > Berin: > > > I see the line with the sub-projects able to be two lines > tall. The > > > first line would be the parent level, and the second line > would be > > > the current line. > > I like a breadcrumb trail better. My last post was a bit > abstract in explaining, so I'll try an example now... > > > Imagine you're at > http://jakarta.apache.org/avalon/applications/avalon-db/client > /gui/userguide > /introduction.html > (which might very well exist in the near feature) > > Using a breadcrumb trail, you'd have > > apache.org > jakarta > avalon > applications > avalon-db > > client > gui > > userguide: > -== INTRODUCTION ==- > > in addition to maybe a menu like this: > > Avalon Client > - overview > - getting started > - download > - install > - ... > > GUI User Guide > - introduction > - the menubar > - the db browser > - running queries > - ... > > Commandline User Guide > - introduction > - getting started > - command reference > - BeanShell integration > - ... > > ... > > The setup Maven currently provide would have > the Jakarta logo, the avalon logo, followed > by a list of avalon-db sub projects in the > horizontal bar, and the same menu on the left. > Using an extra horizontal bar would add a > list of avalon-apps sub projects. You would > really need at least _another_ horizontal bar. > See the problem? What's wrong with both the breadcrumb trail and the sub-projects bar? I.e. jakarta.apache.org > avalon > excalibur CLI Collection Command Concurrent .... And the right hand navigation like on the maven site? Honestly, the breadcrumb alone is not enough, and neather is the strict maven style site. But both together will provide a good balance. > > Another issue is the ever recurring "how to get > back to the main site". While you can click on > the logo, there is no visual hint that you can > actually do so. A breadcrumb trail solves this. > (another option would be to have an "up" button > as exists in most directory explorers, but I > don't really like the idea of that in > documentation. I agree. > > If anyone still disagrees I'll be happy to > present you with more issues. > > (For those that like cold facts better: since > the aforementioned www.planet.nl switched to the > new layout, which fixes the maximum level you can > find yourself at at 3, the site lost many, many > visitors.) > > anyone feel like throwing stones at me yet? :) Sure, but let me get my aim just right.... :P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
