> > - color variations (and all other l&f changes) should be
> >   part of the original look-and-feel design. Giving
> >   programmers free reign to do this spells disaster.
> >   It would be best to have the original designer of a
> >   look and feel work this out. Very strictly.
> 
> :(
> 
> Seriously, I don't dig the big blue background.

that is something we agree on =) While we're at it, I
think the entire header should be smaller. The jakarta
logo is just too big. I'm not volunteering though...
I'm no photoshop biggie.

>  With
> projects like Batik, we can generate images that fit
> with any background color.

really? How well does that work? Does it work on bitmaps?

> The color customization whould be in the project header.

note that all jakarta subproject logos currently are meant
to work with a white background. The Avalon logo would
probably look terrible against something else (as it has
little color). Yet the maven design falls apart if you make
the header white (doesn't really fit in).

> > - the navigation setup we currently have sucks. The
> >   one used by turbine right now is slightly better,
> >   but only slightly. We need arbitrarily deep levels.
> >   The best option is a breadcrumb trail.
> 
> Yes and no.  The Breadcrumb trail + the Maven approach
> would be ideal.  It is easier to get a grip on what
> is available without having to go back to the parent
> level each time.  You should at least see all peers.

I agree. In general, I would not recommend it, but most
of the peer pages on jakarta have a tight enough
relationship that is warranted. Is it true for all
pages, though? Maybe a peer list should dissapear at
a certain depth. This deserves more thought.

(...)

> And I have designed several web applications, and also am
> well versed in site design and color customization.

Then you will agree that changing of the header color should
also mean changing of the color of all the section headers.
And that, if you change the header to white (as would be
required for some subproject logos), you should change the
section headers to a black background. Which is
equivalent to shouting.
Hence I'm scared of "free reign".

> jakarta.apache.org > avalon > excalibur
> CLI Collection Command Concurrent ....
> 
> And the right hand navigation like on the maven site?

I would probably not have the breadcrumb and peer lists
directly below each other in the current maven layout.
This deserves more thought.

> > anyone feel like throwing stones at me yet? :)
> 
> Sure, but let me get my aim just right.... :P

You seen braveheart? :)

cheers,

- Leo

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