----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Re: You guys are so funny.
> You're still missing the point ... The main detail to me is I'd like to > use a combined collaborated project... I'd -1 solely on that. > Centipede more completely fits MY needs and will make it easier for me > to work with several projects that I need (not just tlaking about > xsl)... I'd -1 solely on that Nope I'm not missing your point. I'm just waiting for the salient points to come out. This DVSL vs. XSL thing is a complete red herring. You've said: [Andy] > 2. I'll -1 anything that REQUIRES me to use DVSL if I don't want to. and Jon has said: [Jon] > I can agree with that. Hell, the dvsl vs. xsl is a showstopper for me. > > I can't stand XSL... I'm pretty sure Jon was exaggerating, particularly considering that he picked up my "bike shed" argument. I suspect you are too. If we want to see if collaboration is possible, let's put the real issues on the table. So far I haven't pinpointed any showstoppers, except for people too attached to the color of their shed. However it's hard to even judge what would make a showstopper until there's a more concrete proposal. If there are real discrepencies, let's spell them out. > BTW when did the Majority voting rule overrule the consenus based? I > regard this as a product change. DVSL is a product change for Centipede. XSL is a product change for Maven. If the projects merge, different approaches will have to be reconciled by the majority; essentially you would have a new product; there would be no existing "product" to change. Clearly most people don't known what, if anything, they want to gain from this discussion. Two compatible projects? One merged project? Let's work out some more detailed proposals before chasing at shadows. > > > Morgan Delagrange wrote: > > >I agree with pretty much everything said, although as > >always Jon words it a tad more strongly than I ever > >would. :) > > > >Let the community decide. If 51% of the developers > >want to use XSL, or DVSL, then that's what you should > >use. If you don't like it, prove that your > >alternative is better. But dropping a whole project > >because of a detail is needless. > > > >- Morgan > > > >--- Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>on 5/2/02 8:44 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>>Same here, I'll -1 a switch to either maven or > >>> > >>centipede on the projects I > >> > >>>have a vote on until they find a way to work > >>> > >>togheter. > >> > >>>DVSL may be a nice language, but XSLT is the > >>> > >>standard - regardless of how > >> > >>>you play with the word. I'm fine with a tool that > >>> > >>supports both. > >> > >>>Costin > >>> > >>You guys are so funny. > >> > >>Bike Sheds > >>---------- > >> > >>At first, people -1'd the use of Anakia to generate > >>the Jakarta website. But > >>then when I took the effort to make it simple and > >>easy to use and took away > >>the bike shed argument, people adopted it and used > >>it all over the world. > >> > >>On top of it, in *years*, no one has gone and > >>replaced Jakarta-site2 with > >>anything better. Sure, Craig did a XSLT stylesheet, > >>but no one changed the > >>main Jakarta site to use it and I still see new > >>Anakia sites on > >>Sourceforget.net all the time. > >> > >>The next thing to replace jakarta-site2 will be > >>Maven. Just like with > >>Anakia, I honestly don't care if you -1 it. You > >>aren't doing the work and > >>therefore your argument against it is simply a bike > >>shed and is thus not > >>valid in my opinion. > >> > >>Costin, just like with Tomcat 3 vs. Tomcat 4. We all > >>learned that you can't > >>force projects to work together. Nor can you vote -1 > >>on it. Given our > >>history, I'm really surprised to hear you trying to > >>argue for something like > >>that. You hypocrite. > >> > >>Learning Technology > >>------------------- > >> > >>The argument about learning minor technologies to > >>make money is so silly it > >>is funny. I have owned/started several companies now > >>and have been > >>responsible for hiring or directly approving the > >>hiring of about 50-60 > >>people over the last 10 years. Not a huge amount, > >>but not small either. > >> > >>Never once did I think to myself, hmmm...that person > >>knows minor technology > >>X better than minor technology Y. What I cared the > >>most about was that the > >>person had a general good skill set and the aptitude > >>to learn something new. > >>So, if learning DVSL vs. XSLT is beyond your > >>aptitude, I probably would not > >>have hired you anyway. > >> > >>On top of it, the mentality of having to fit into > >>the box because everyone > >>else is doing it would make me instantly not like > >>your personality. I like > >>people who are free thinkers and who can think > >>outside of the box. Software > >>is an art form, not something that you can just > >>cookie cutter produce (and > >>have it come out being any good). IMHO, it is the > >>free thinkers that have > >>the most creative and bug free code. Thinking > >>outside of the box shows that > >>you care about the code and systems you are > >>creating. > >> > >>People > >>------ > >> > >>Needless to say, the attitudes here are becoming > >>more and more familiar. > >>Andrew reminds me of the early days of dealing with > >>Peter Donald (credit to > >>Peter for eventually coming to his senses...I think > >>joining the PMC helped). > >>Steven reminds me of Paulo. Deja vu! > >> > >>:-) > >> > >>-jon > >> > >> > >>-- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>For additional commands, e-mail: > >><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > > > > >===== > >Morgan Delagrange > >http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs > >http://jakarta.apache.org/commons > >http://axion.tigris.org > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > >http://health.yahoo.com > > > >-- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
