This appears to be a restatement of the proverb:

“There is no programming language–no matter how structured–that will prevent 
programmers from making bad programs.”
(Larry Flon) 

Donna 
[email protected]


On 2010-10-25, at 7:04 PM, Ian Clark wrote:

> Thanks Donna.
> 
> Now could you please use what you've just told me to fully parse the
> following expression?
> 
> p ; q ; 0 ; ([: ". (39 112 32 113 39 61 58{a.) , ":) 98 99
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Donna Y <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Ian
>> 
>> In English a pronoun can function by itself as a noun that refers to either 
>> participants in a discourse ( I, you...) or to someone or something 
>> mentioned previously that should be clear from the context (he, she, it ...)
>> 
>> On the other hand a Proverb is a short pithy saying - and this is a 
>> proverbial mistake of thinking that English word formation should follow a 
>> consistent logic and generate similar meaning by following similar word 
>> construction.
>> 
>> An example of a proverb:  Forewarned is forearmed.
>> 
>> An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb.
>> 
>> An adjective names an attribute related to a noun
>> 
>> Operators can transform functions into other functions.  This is like an 
>> Adverb not a Proverb.
>> 
>> Donna
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> On 2010-10-25, at 12:19 AM, Roger Hui wrote:
>> 
>>> Well in the natural language the pronoun "he"
>>> sometimes can refer to Ian, and in other times
>>> refer to Ken, and in yet other times to Roger,
>>> right?
>>> 
>>> The analogy English grammar terms and
>>> J grammar terms is not watertight.  You carry
>>> it out only as far as it's helpful.  The main areas
>>> where the analogy is _very_ helpful is adverb
>>> and verb.  In contrast, try explaining "operator"
>>> to a beginner, and (speaking of angel-balancing)
>>> try explaining the difference between an operator
>>> and a function.
>>> 
>>> The first reference I can find of Ken's use of noun/verb
>>> in APL is in Chapter 1 of "Algebra: An Algorithmic
>>> Treatment", 1972
>>> http://keiapl.org/anec/#algebra
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ian Clark <[email protected]>
>>> Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010 10:40
>>> Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb?
>>> To: General forum <[email protected]>
>>> 
>>>> Yes, I saw all that.
>>>> 
>>>> But, to my mind, there's something Humpty-Dumpty about it all...
>>>> 
>>>> If I input:
>>>> 
>>>> foo=: +/
>>>> fie=: foo&99"_
>>>> fie f.
>>>> foo=: i. 9
>>>> fie f.
>>>> 
>>>> ...is foo now a pronoun, whereas it was hitherto a proverb? Or
>>>> is it
>>>> 'foo' that's the pronoun? After all, English grammar is all to
>>>> do with
>>>> words, not the things they (might conceivably) designate.
>>>> 
>>>> Could we say that foo was always a pronoun and never was a proverb
>>>> (although there was indeed a synonymous proverb... one that was erased
>>>> to avoid a name clash)?
>>>> 
>>>> I can think of cases where this sort of angel-balancing matters.
>>>> ...In the above series of statements, one could argue.
>>>> 
>>>> I've only just today met the J term: "pronoun". Hitherto I've been
>>>> blithely calling foo (as in foo=: i.9) a "noun". Whereas in APL I
>>>> would never have confused a variable, the name of the variable, and
>>>> its (current) value.
>>>> 
>>>> And in Dyalog APL (I vaguely recall) it's possible to create un-named
>>>> objects having nameclass 9 --and make them do things.
>>>> 
>>>> SNOBOL, I recall, made a meal of this issue. A dog's-dinner, indeed.
>>>> 
>>>> Ian
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Dan Bron <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> It means what you think: Something that stands for (pro-) a
>>>> verb.  The only J entities capable of "standing for" (as opposed
>>>> to just "being") in J are names.  Hence, a proverb is a name
>>>> whose referent is a verb / a name which has been assigned to a
>>>> verb / a name with nameclass verb (3)*.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This definition is difficult to find in the DoJ, but it's
>>>> there [1]:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The word =: behaves like the copulas “is” and “are” in
>>>> English, and is read as such, as in “area is 3 times 4” for
>>>> area=: 3*4 . The name area thus assigned is a pronoun and, as in
>>>> English, it plays the role of a noun. Similar remarks apply to
>>>> names assigned to verbs, adverbs, and conjunctions."
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Dan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] DoJ §II :   http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dict2.htm
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> * We need a better word for user assignable names like "area"
>>>> to distinguish them from system-defined names like "a." or "*" .
>>>>  Ideas anyone?
>>>>> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Ian Clark <[email protected]>
>>>>> Sender: [email protected]
>>>>> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 17:19:58
>>>>> To: General forum<[email protected]>
>>>>> Reply-To: General forum <[email protected]>
>>>>> Subject: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Could someone please define the J term "proverb" for me?
>>>>> I've scanned:
>>>>>   >>  <<  Ndx  Usr  Pri  JfC  LJ  Phr  Dic  Rel  Voc  !:
>>>>  wd  Help
>>>>> but I'm still not sure.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can guess, but I want to know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ian
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
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