This appears to be a restatement of the proverb: “There is no programming language–no matter how structured–that will prevent programmers from making bad programs.” (Larry Flon)
Donna [email protected] On 2010-10-25, at 7:04 PM, Ian Clark wrote: > Thanks Donna. > > Now could you please use what you've just told me to fully parse the > following expression? > > p ; q ; 0 ; ([: ". (39 112 32 113 39 61 58{a.) , ":) 98 99 > > Ian > > > > On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Donna Y <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi Ian >> >> In English a pronoun can function by itself as a noun that refers to either >> participants in a discourse ( I, you...) or to someone or something >> mentioned previously that should be clear from the context (he, she, it ...) >> >> On the other hand a Proverb is a short pithy saying - and this is a >> proverbial mistake of thinking that English word formation should follow a >> consistent logic and generate similar meaning by following similar word >> construction. >> >> An example of a proverb: Forewarned is forearmed. >> >> An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb. >> >> An adjective names an attribute related to a noun >> >> Operators can transform functions into other functions. This is like an >> Adverb not a Proverb. >> >> Donna >> [email protected] >> >> >> On 2010-10-25, at 12:19 AM, Roger Hui wrote: >> >>> Well in the natural language the pronoun "he" >>> sometimes can refer to Ian, and in other times >>> refer to Ken, and in yet other times to Roger, >>> right? >>> >>> The analogy English grammar terms and >>> J grammar terms is not watertight. You carry >>> it out only as far as it's helpful. The main areas >>> where the analogy is _very_ helpful is adverb >>> and verb. In contrast, try explaining "operator" >>> to a beginner, and (speaking of angel-balancing) >>> try explaining the difference between an operator >>> and a function. >>> >>> The first reference I can find of Ken's use of noun/verb >>> in APL is in Chapter 1 of "Algebra: An Algorithmic >>> Treatment", 1972 >>> http://keiapl.org/anec/#algebra >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Ian Clark <[email protected]> >>> Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010 10:40 >>> Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb? >>> To: General forum <[email protected]> >>> >>>> Yes, I saw all that. >>>> >>>> But, to my mind, there's something Humpty-Dumpty about it all... >>>> >>>> If I input: >>>> >>>> foo=: +/ >>>> fie=: foo&99"_ >>>> fie f. >>>> foo=: i. 9 >>>> fie f. >>>> >>>> ...is foo now a pronoun, whereas it was hitherto a proverb? Or >>>> is it >>>> 'foo' that's the pronoun? After all, English grammar is all to >>>> do with >>>> words, not the things they (might conceivably) designate. >>>> >>>> Could we say that foo was always a pronoun and never was a proverb >>>> (although there was indeed a synonymous proverb... one that was erased >>>> to avoid a name clash)? >>>> >>>> I can think of cases where this sort of angel-balancing matters. >>>> ...In the above series of statements, one could argue. >>>> >>>> I've only just today met the J term: "pronoun". Hitherto I've been >>>> blithely calling foo (as in foo=: i.9) a "noun". Whereas in APL I >>>> would never have confused a variable, the name of the variable, and >>>> its (current) value. >>>> >>>> And in Dyalog APL (I vaguely recall) it's possible to create un-named >>>> objects having nameclass 9 --and make them do things. >>>> >>>> SNOBOL, I recall, made a meal of this issue. A dog's-dinner, indeed. >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Dan Bron <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> It means what you think: Something that stands for (pro-) a >>>> verb. The only J entities capable of "standing for" (as opposed >>>> to just "being") in J are names. Hence, a proverb is a name >>>> whose referent is a verb / a name which has been assigned to a >>>> verb / a name with nameclass verb (3)*. >>>>> >>>>> This definition is difficult to find in the DoJ, but it's >>>> there [1]: >>>>> >>>>> "The word =: behaves like the copulas “is” and “are” in >>>> English, and is read as such, as in “area is 3 times 4” for >>>> area=: 3*4 . The name area thus assigned is a pronoun and, as in >>>> English, it plays the role of a noun. Similar remarks apply to >>>> names assigned to verbs, adverbs, and conjunctions." >>>>> >>>>> -Dan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [1] DoJ §II : http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dict2.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * We need a better word for user assignable names like "area" >>>> to distinguish them from system-defined names like "a." or "*" . >>>> Ideas anyone? >>>>> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ian Clark <[email protected]> >>>>> Sender: [email protected] >>>>> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 17:19:58 >>>>> To: General forum<[email protected]> >>>>> Reply-To: General forum <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb? >>>>> >>>>> Could someone please define the J term "proverb" for me? >>>>> I've scanned: >>>>> >> << Ndx Usr Pri JfC LJ Phr Dic Rel Voc !: >>>> wd Help >>>>> but I'm still not sure. >>>>> >>>>> I can guess, but I want to know. >>>>> >>>>> Ian >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------- >>>>> For information about J forums see >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm> ---------------------------- >>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> For information about J forums see >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ----- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
