Hi Ian In English a pronoun can function by itself as a noun that refers to either participants in a discourse ( I, you...) or to someone or something mentioned previously that should be clear from the context (he, she, it ...)
On the other hand a Proverb is a short pithy saying - and this is a proverbial mistake of thinking that English word formation should follow a consistent logic and generate similar meaning by following similar word construction. An example of a proverb: Forewarned is forearmed. An adverb modifies a verb, adjective or other adverb. An adjective names an attribute related to a noun Operators can transform functions into other functions. This is like an Adverb not a Proverb. Donna [email protected] On 2010-10-25, at 12:19 AM, Roger Hui wrote: > Well in the natural language the pronoun "he" > sometimes can refer to Ian, and in other times > refer to Ken, and in yet other times to Roger, > right? > > The analogy English grammar terms and > J grammar terms is not watertight. You carry > it out only as far as it's helpful. The main areas > where the analogy is _very_ helpful is adverb > and verb. In contrast, try explaining "operator" > to a beginner, and (speaking of angel-balancing) > try explaining the difference between an operator > and a function. > > The first reference I can find of Ken's use of noun/verb > in APL is in Chapter 1 of "Algebra: An Algorithmic > Treatment", 1972 > http://keiapl.org/anec/#algebra > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ian Clark <[email protected]> > Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010 10:40 > Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb? > To: General forum <[email protected]> > >> Yes, I saw all that. >> >> But, to my mind, there's something Humpty-Dumpty about it all... >> >> If I input: >> >> foo=: +/ >> fie=: foo&99"_ >> fie f. >> foo=: i. 9 >> fie f. >> >> ...is foo now a pronoun, whereas it was hitherto a proverb? Or >> is it >> 'foo' that's the pronoun? After all, English grammar is all to >> do with >> words, not the things they (might conceivably) designate. >> >> Could we say that foo was always a pronoun and never was a proverb >> (although there was indeed a synonymous proverb... one that was erased >> to avoid a name clash)? >> >> I can think of cases where this sort of angel-balancing matters. >> ...In the above series of statements, one could argue. >> >> I've only just today met the J term: "pronoun". Hitherto I've been >> blithely calling foo (as in foo=: i.9) a "noun". Whereas in APL I >> would never have confused a variable, the name of the variable, and >> its (current) value. >> >> And in Dyalog APL (I vaguely recall) it's possible to create un-named >> objects having nameclass 9 --and make them do things. >> >> SNOBOL, I recall, made a meal of this issue. A dog's-dinner, indeed. >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Dan Bron <[email protected]> wrote: >>> It means what you think: Something that stands for (pro-) a >> verb. The only J entities capable of "standing for" (as opposed >> to just "being") in J are names. Hence, a proverb is a name >> whose referent is a verb / a name which has been assigned to a >> verb / a name with nameclass verb (3)*. >>> >>> This definition is difficult to find in the DoJ, but it's >> there [1]: >>> >>> "The word =: behaves like the copulas “is” and “are” in >> English, and is read as such, as in “area is 3 times 4” for >> area=: 3*4 . The name area thus assigned is a pronoun and, as in >> English, it plays the role of a noun. Similar remarks apply to >> names assigned to verbs, adverbs, and conjunctions." >>> >>> -Dan >>> >>> >>> [1] DoJ §II : http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dict2.htm >>> >>> >>> * We need a better word for user assignable names like "area" >> to distinguish them from system-defined names like "a." or "*" . >> Ideas anyone? >>> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ian Clark <[email protected]> >>> Sender: [email protected] >>> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 17:19:58 >>> To: General forum<[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: General forum <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [Jgeneral] Pronoun and proverb? >>> >>> Could someone please define the J term "proverb" for me? >>> I've scanned: >>> >> << Ndx Usr Pri JfC LJ Phr Dic Rel Voc !: >> wd Help >>> but I'm still not sure. >>> >>> I can guess, but I want to know. >>> >>> Ian >>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------- >>> For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm> ---------------------------- >> ------------------------------------------ >>> For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
