Along these lines there is a question about how to get info out by creating a rss feed in the stile of a random cookie sending out some tidbits and news.
Possibly even several channels with different tastes and interests. It could be an option in JHS to receive a rss and place it on a page called news. You could also mix it with rss from other sources. Similarly there might be a tool in GTK to receive the same rss as some sort of popups or forms. It might even be connected to the forums and show summaries or whole messages. 2011/2/15 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > Like all good things, it can be overdone. > > > 2011/2/15 Björn Helgason <[email protected]>: > > I think the idea of some info at the start has its merits. > > I get this kind of info about some Linux features in some apps. > > Tool tips can be interesting even if most of the time they are not. > > It is something like in J with demos/labs/helps that you may think you > have > > seen it all. > > Then visiting it you see there are a lot of new stuff there. > > Also revisiting a something you tried a long time ago and either > > misunderstood or had no need for may be good. > > Util that points toward things of interest like tool tips are hard to do > > well. > > > > 2011/2/15 Ian Clark <[email protected]> > > > >> Thanks, Ric. That's just the explanation I needed. > >> > >> If I can have a noun (as I do now with j602, called PROMPTS) then I'd > >> like to maintain it in startup.ijs rather than base.cfg, because I'm > >> always editing startup.ijs (it's the first line in my PROMPTS). But if > >> I can have only one out of noun/verb then I'd say verb for its added > >> flexibility. > >> > >> But hey, it's no big deal -- just one more alias on my desktop: > "base.cfg". > >> > >> As for the need for welcome messages, I'd say (from extensive HF > >> laboratory investigation of novice behaviour in the 80s -- which may > >> no longer pertain for a generation brought up on bad HF design) that > >> the requirement is a negative one: not to be faced with a blank screen > >> (especially one with the cryptic title "Term") without some context > >> being cued. Eg: 'enter something in J:' > >> > >> Recall that not 1 but 2 windows appear when you click the green J: a > >> unix window too (which certainly does furnish context, most > >> commendably too). It almost shouts at you: "type here..." > >> > >> I would also warn against generalising from one's own usage > >> preference. We all know features that are so badly designed the first > >> thing we do is turn them off. Talking paperclips, anyone? And -- heck > >> -- who needs the Accessibility options? <yes yes I'm kidding...> > >> > >> But even if one's sympathies lie with one's expert audience, there's a > >> case for spoonfeeding the novice user. > >> > >> My own requirement may not be shared by many. I use J for several > >> regular routine tasks, and it helps me to have a prompt of the chief > >> tasks as re-inputtable lines. A wizzkid would be ashamed to use what > >> he'd see as a crutch... but I prefer to think of it as the trim-wheel, > >> when you fly a light aircraft. Pilots get no reward for saying "hey -- > >> who needs the trim-wheel?" > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Ric Sherlock <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > My initial post at the start of this thread was more about how to > >> > create a cross-JFE mechanism for displaying a default Welcome message > >> > on startup - along with a way to turn it off. If done right it will > >> > also allow users/developers to create their own custom startup > >> > message. > >> > > >> > As I see it the ShowWelcome in base.cfg is required so that the users > >> > can turn off the default welcome message that each JFE will provide. > >> > Setting a Welcome noun to empty in startup.ijs won't help if the JFE > >> > (that loads after startup.ijs) then repopulates it. > >> > > >> > Of course there may be other models that work too, including setting > >> > the welcome message or verb in a .cfg file as Chris suggests. > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> Basically sounds ok. > >> >> > >> >> I was assuming user would create Welcome in _z_ (or _base_?) not _j_ > , > >> >> but I don't know if that's better, apart from a gut-feel that system > >> >> classes ought to remain untouched. > >> >> > >> >> Must Welcome be a noun, or can it be a verb instead? Might both be > >> >> allowed (whence different names would be needed?) > >> >> > >> >> Don't fully grasp the need for ShowWelcome in base.cfg. The welcome > >> >> msg can be disabled altogether by having startup.ijs set it to empty. > >> >> What's gained from having the user set/check a cfg as well as > >> >> startup.ijs -- which is effectively a user profile too? Are we > >> >> catering here for an administrator who needs the power to deny > >> >> facilities to the user? AFAICS the only reason for this facility is > >> >> because startup.ijs gets executed "too early" in j701 and the > >> >> architecture won't allow it to be executed any later. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Ric Sherlock <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >>> I think startup.ijs could still do the job. How does this sound? > >> >>> > >> >>> * User creates custom Welcome_j_ in their startup.ijs. > >> >>> * JFE creates Welcome_j_ (if it doesn't already exist) with its > >> >>> default message) > >> >>> * Welcome_j_ is "smoutput"ed to session if ShowWelcome (in > base.cfg) > >> >>> is set to 1. > >> >>> > >> >>> To get this to work across JFEs there needs to be some agreement > that > >> >>> it is desirable (or at least no disagreement that it is > undesirable). > >> >>> > >> >>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >>>> Got it to work by adding 2 lines to the bottom of verb: main in: > >> >>>> ~addons/ide/gtk/gtk.ijs > >> >>>> > >> >>>> main=: 3 : 0 > >> >>>> main_init'' > >> >>>> if. r=. conf_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >> >>>> if. r=. conn_init'' do. main_quit r return. end. > >> >>>> proj_init'' > >> >>>> menu_init'' > >> >>>> sview_init'' > >> >>>> main_open'' > >> >>>> main_run'' > >> >>>> if. 3= 4!:0 <'welcome' do. welcome'' end. > >> >>>> if. 0= 4!:0 <'WELCOME' do. smoutput WELCOME end. > >> >>>> 0 > >> >>>> ) > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Clearly this fix will only last until the next Pacman download. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Unfortunately startup.ijs can't patch the target verb itself, > because > >> >>>> locale 'jgtkide' isn't yet loaded. The only locales present when > >> >>>> startup.ijs is entered are: > >> >>>> base ctag j jcompare jijs jregex jtask z > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Ian Clark <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >>>>> That's kinda what I guessed. Viz by modifying: main_init_jgtkide_ > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:02 AM, bill lam <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >>>>>> gtkide will run jfe 1 during booting and only after that will > >> smoutput > >> >>>>>> redirect to Term. So that you need to put motd after that jfe. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> Пнд, 14 Фев 2011, Ian Clark писал(а): > >> >>>>>>> smoutput in startup.ijs causes a message to appear in jconsole, > >> >>>>>>> whether running JCON, JHS or JGTK. > >> >>>>>>> (...which weakly satisfies your original request). > >> >>>>>>> But I've only verified this for the Mac. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> bin/jgtk.command contains the text: > >> >>>>>>> #!/bin/sh > >> >>>>>>> "`dirname "$0"`/jconsole" gtkide > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> so my guess is that by the time gtkide gets run, startup.ijs has > >> >>>>>>> already been loaded and has had time to perform its definitions > and > >> >>>>>>> overrides. > >> >>>>>>> So it would be up to the "gtkide" function (main_jgtkide_ ??) to > >> look > >> >>>>>>> for a welcome noun or verb. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:23 AM, Ric Sherlock < > [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >>>>>>> > Yes I was thinking along similar lines. > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > Each of the JFEs could set an appropriate message in > Welcome_j_. > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > The Welcome_j_ non could be overwritten by the user's various > >> >>>>>>> > startup.ijs scripts (unless this gets run before the JFE > scripts > >> - I > >> >>>>>>> > need to check) > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > Depending on the setting of ShowWelcome in ~config/base.cfg > the > >> >>>>>>> > Welcome_j_ noun gets displayed in the session > (jconsole/Term/jijx > >> >>>>>>> > window). > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Ian Clark < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> >>>>>>> >> How about smoutputting the noun WELCOME if it is present, and > >> not otherwise? > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> >> Maybe also executing: welcome'' > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> >> The user could define or override either of these words in > >> startup.ijs > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> >> On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Ric Sherlock < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> >>>>>>> >>> I think it would be good to have a default "Welcome message" > >> >>>>>>> >>> (especially for jconsole). > >> >>>>>>> >>> > >> >>>>>>> >>> It just needs to be something simple to let the user know > they > >> are in > >> >>>>>>> >>> a Jconsole session and how to exit. IME there is nothing > worse > >> than > >> >>>>>>> >>> knowing you are in some application, but not knowing what it > is > >> or how > >> >>>>>>> >>> to get out of it! > >> >>>>>>> >>> > >> >>>>>>> >>> Obviously the Welcome message would be able to be turned > off, > >> for > >> >>>>>>> >>> example using an option in ~config/base.cfg ( ShowWelcome=: > 0 > >> ) > >> >>>>>>> >>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>>> >>> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>>>>>> >>> > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>>> >> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>>>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>>> > For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>>>>>> > > >> >>>>>>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>>> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> -- > >> >>>>>> regards, > >> >>>>>> ==================================================== > >> >>>>>> GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > >> >>>>>> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > >> >>>>>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>>>> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>>> For information about J forums see > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur > > Fornustekkum II > > 781 Hornafirði, > > t-póst: [email protected] > > gsm: +3546985532 > > sími: +3544781286 > > http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming > > > > > > Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans > > > > góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum > > /|_ .-----------------------------------. > > ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | > > ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | > > / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | > > ( -. | `-----------------------------------' > > | ) | (\_ _/) > > (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ > > `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > -- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fornustekkum II 781 Hornafirði, t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 sími: +3544781286 http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
