Steve, In talking to Dave Karl a few years ago who was testing Phil Kithil's tube, it seemed like a core problem was trying to select for a depth where you had more nutrients (P, N) than CO2, so there was a net gain... since carbon is also greater at depth. Also-- Phil seemed to think he would keep the tubes equidistant from each other with a huge network of underwater cables... which seemed logistically (as well as aesthetically) problematic.
Curious as to your thoughts in these areas... D On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Stephen Salter <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All > > The oceans are a big thermal store so the scheme would give us time for > a quiet think. However we can bring nutrients up to the photic layers > and grow more phytoplankton giving more dimethyl sulphide for cloud > nuclei and converting lots of CO2 to non acidic biomass, some of which > we can eat. > > There is a paper called /Hurricanes carbon and fish and a picture called > /MacNeill downtube in the /Hurricanes folder at the site below my > signature. /Chlorophyll comparison shows how empty most of the oceans > are for most of the time. Click through at about one a second for a > month-by-month animation. We need lots of permanent, private la Nina > events. > > Stephen > > > Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design > School of Engineering and Electronics > University of Edinburgh > Mayfield Road > Edinburgh EH9 3JL > Scotland > tel +44 131 650 5704 > fax +44 131 650 5702 > Mobile 07795 203 195 > [email protected] > http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs <http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/%7Eshs> > > > > Mike MacCracken wrote: > > Just a note that while pumping heat down into the ocean can lead to > > local cooling, storing heat in the ocean is adding and retaining > > energy, so will eventually emerge as warming. And, of course, it will > > contribute to sea level rise. Thus, while a local effort of this type > > to help limit hurricane intensification may be a good trade, it is not > > likely to be a global cure for the system (unless one can really pull > > the GHG concentrations down in other ways so heat from the ocean would > > moderate the rate of cooling—as it does now during winter). > > > > Mike MacCracken > > > > > > On 12/28/09 1:34 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hello, I'm new here and I expect to make a few blunders until I am > > better acquainted with previous discussions. I am a retired > > physicist and have some leadership role in the Sierra Club. > > > > The Salter Sink is an excellent concept for raising cold water to > > the surface. the area that needs design attention is the injection > > system at the bottom of the tube. With careful design, it will > > raise probably ten times as much cold water as is pumped down. > > This design work is quite easy. > > > > Next, I had never considered the advantage of the wave-driven pump > > as a way to cool the ocean, rather as a way to raise nutrients to > > the surface to increase biological production. Most of the ocean > > surface world-wide is limited in production by inadequate nitrate > > and phosphate rather than iron. Some good places for hurricane > > control are also good for placement of "ocean farms" fed by wave > > pumps. For example, the North Atlantic Gyre region, also known as > > the Sargasso Sea. > > > > I believe if somebody will check the economic potential of > > pump-fed sea farms in some areas such as the horse latitudes, it > > will be found that the Salter pumps will pay for themselves and > > return a handsome profit. > > > > My thought-- it isn't necessary to remove the pump structures > > before they encounter storms--if they are lowered below the > > surface by about 100 meters, then they are completely sheltered > > from the storm above. > > > > I can imagine a Salter pump connected to a lattice structure that > > spreads over an area of sea around the pump. Kelp or other > > suitable plants are anchored to the lattice. The "farm" provides a > > sea pasture in which farm animals are grown and harvested for market. > > > > Ernie Rogers > > Pleasant Grove, Utah > > Phone 801-368-4902 > > > > In a message dated 12/27/2009 6:02:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > John and list: > > > > I agree that this was an important interview for advancing > > geoengineering (Fareed Zakaria is one of my favorite > > writers/analysts/interviewers). My main objection was that > > Fareed or > > his show producers seemed to not be aware of the limitations > > of SRM. By > > this I mean that the fundamental causation agent - excess CO2 > > - was > > ignored, not mentioned once. Greg Lau's message to the list just > > earlier on the need to protect against ocean acidification was > > never > > hinted at. (More tomorrow on that.) > > > > The end of the twenty minutes was on Myrhvold's firms focus on > > investing in inventions - which he says only his new firm is > > doing > > (emphasizing this is not the same as venture capital - which > > he also > > claimed has revolutionized modern American (world?) business). > > > > I wish I knew whether Myrhvold himself was working on CO2 > > removal as > > well as his SO2 approach. The site also has quite a bit on the > > Salton > > Sink concept (see > > > http://www.intvenlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Salter-Sink-white-paper-300dpi1.pdf > ). > > > > Also see http://intellectualventureslab.com/?p=338 for added > > material on > > geoengineering. > > > > Ron > > > > > > John Nissen wrote: > > > Hi all > > > > > > Have you seen this? Best case for SRM in Arctic I've seen! > > > > > > Inventor Nathan Myhrvold describes "space hose" for getting > > aerosols > > > into stratosphere - and he's done the modelling to show it > > could be used > > > at the Arctic, to cool whole hemisphere, without disrupting > > weather (see > > > about 9 minutes in). "Cooling the Arctic shuts of a whole lot > of > > > tipping points." It shows incredible promise, but governments > > aren't > > > running to him - so far. > > > > > > > http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/podcasts/fareedzakaria/site/2009/12/20/gps.podcast.12.20.cnn > > > > > > > > > > > "Suppressing the only technology that could get us out of this > > > pickle..." would be plain silly. > > > > > > He argues (as nobody I've seen to argue before), that even > > emissions > > > reduction to zero overnight, would not solve the problem of > > global > > > warming, because about 20% CO2 stays in atmosphere for > > thousands of years. > > > > > > "Geoengineering has to be part of the debate". "We have to > > examine the > > > options". "You can't rule these things out." > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > Google Groups "geoengineering" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]> > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.121/2589 - Release > > Date: 12/27/09 02:18:00 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > Google Groups "geoengineering" group. > > To post to this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "geoengineering" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "geoengineering" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
