Unfortunately, my personal belief is that we have already failed (time wise) and that the policy makers will not recognize the need for large scale efforts in time to avoid the first tipping point from developing.
Look at the arctic data for April. There is an unusually high temperature formation in Siberia which will soon cause warmer water both off shore and that of the river water input, as well as, increased methane out gassing rates. The Ozone hole anomaly will deepen do to the acceleration of the upward arctic cell circulation from such high temperatures. This cell circulation acceleration means higher rates of ozone depleting gases being transport into the stratosphere. This, in turn, can cause a larger and more prolonged plankton kill off than usual, which will in of itself, can produce added methane release from the plankton biomass decay. This could be a perfect storm like combination. The ice is holding later than usual and that is good to see. Yet, the extra methane/moisture being produced by the high continental temperatures could swiftly create significant atmospheric hot spots over the ice. Greenland is enjoying lower than normal temperatures. Yet, the arctic cell is being loaded with allot of moisture right now and that can predictably cause higher overall arctic temperatures these next few months. The CBD evaluation of GE coming up in June, if positive, it could get some governance momentum moving. Or, if it develops a negative evaluation, could simply close the door to any broad based cooperation. If the latter happens, unilateral efforts should be seriously considered. Humanity needs a workable emergency response means to sudden climate change. Development of Direct Injection SRM should not be held up. . . On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 3:05 AM, Andrew Lockley <andrew.lock...@gmail.com>wrote: > You should be able to detect methane release using gas samplers on buoys or > the sea bed. Hydrophones may also detect bubbles. Autonomous ships could > also be used, or data could be collected from any existing marine traffic. > Aerial imaging could detect larger releases. > > Putting liquid air into the sea is a non starter. Injecting it into the sea > bed might help, but it would be energy intensive. Venting would be a > problem, so a closed system using cooling pipes may work better. It's only > going to be practical with a small leak in a large reservoir. > > In my personal opinion, this issue is make or break for our society. > > A > On 9 May 2011 10:52, "Michael Hayes" <voglerl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On the issue of using Lair as a vent sealant, I may be wrong, but, I do > > believe the ice formed would most likely float away. And, a vent would be > > > most likely more of a diffused field of bubble streams as opposed to a > > central "vent". Also, capping such a vent with even cement will be > > eventually compromised by the build up of pressure. Finding even a small > > fraction of the expected release areas would be difficult. Overhead > imaging > > may help in that chore, yet, I personally do not know how a methane > release > > point can be remotely detected. > > > > As far as Oxides of nitrogen/hydroxyl radicals. Yes, NOX is reactive with > > > many GHG. It is also known to produce significant health risks at long > > distances and acid rain. Here is a short health effects list from Wiki; > > > > "Health effects" > > > > "NO*x* reacts with ammonia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia>, > moisture, > > and other compounds to form nitric acid< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_acid> vapor > > and related particles. Small particles can penetrate deeply into > sensitive > > lung tissue and damage it, causing premature death in extreme cases. > > Inhalation of such particles may cause or worsen respiratory diseases > such > > as emphysema <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emphysema>, bronchitis< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronchitis> it > > may also aggravate existing heart disease.[7]< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#cite_note-6> > > > > NO*x* reacts with volatile organic compounds< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_organic_compounds> in > > the presence sunlight to form Ozone <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone>. > > > Ozone can cause adverse effects such as damage to lung tissue and > reduction > > in lung function mostly in susceptible populations (children, elderly, > > asthmatics). Ozone can be transported by wind currents and cause health > > impacts far from the original sources. The American Lung Association > > estimates that nearly 50 percent of United States inhabitants live in > > counties that are not in ozone compliance.[8]< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#cite_note-7> > > > > NO*x* destroys ozone in the stratosphere< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer> > > .[9] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#cite_note-NOAA_N2O-8> Ozone in > the > > stratosphere absorbs ultraviolet light< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light>, > > which is potentially damaging to life on earth.[10]< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#cite_note-NASA-9> > > NO*x* from combustion sources does not reach the stratosphere; instead, > NO* > > x* is formed in the stratosphere from photolysis< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photolysis> > > of nitrous oxide <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide>.[9]< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#cite_note-NOAA_N2O-8> > > > > NO*x* also readily reacts with common organic chemicals, and even ozone, > to > > form a wide variety of toxic products: nitroarenes< > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitroarenes&action=edit&redlink=1 > > > > , nitrosamines <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrosamines> and also the > nitrate > > radical< > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nitrate_radical&action=edit&redlink=1> > some > > of which may cause biologicalmutations< > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutations>. > > Recently another pathway, via NOx, to ozone has been found that > > predominantly occurs in coastal areas via formation of nitryl chloride > when > > NOx comes into contact with salt mist." [1]< > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2453175/> > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx > > > > > > Production of NOx does require high temperatures or strong UV exposure. > Open > > air release of LN2 would not entail heat, but, the Arctic Ozone Hole does > > > migrate over the ESAS and thus, the volume of released LN2 would > potentially > > be exposed to a strong enough UV energy to produce significant amounts of > > > NOx. I could be wrong on this. > > > > Finding a way to use NOx to neutralize GHGs without open air release > would > > seem optimal. > > > > Efficient high volume air movement through the system would be a key > factor > > (as it is in all air capture concepts). High volume air contact systems > > stationed in remote areas is even more challenging. > > > > I have a few thoughts on how to approach the technical side of the issue > > which are not far removed from what I have already brought to this forum > in > > past posts. A much larger version of this tethered system could provide a > > > base structure for a GHG "Scrubber". > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/14529376@N00/2730542642/ A Salter Tether > Ship > > wold be a good base for this approach. > > > > Hearing concepts on remote area high volume air contact means/methods > from > > others would be helpful. > > > > > > Albert, I found this article on N2O which was a real eye opener for me. > > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090827_ozone.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using liquid air to seal methane vents may well work. Using it for > general > > cooling of the sea or land surface will not. > > Oxides of nitrogen are critical in the formation of hydroxyl radicals. > They > > therefore play a key role in the breakdown of methane. Although > greenhouse > > gases in their own right, it's vital to accurately judge the effect of > > manipulations. An increase may paradoxically treat warming very > > effectively. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > > To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > > -- *Michael Hayes* *360-708-4976* http://www.wix.com/voglerlake/vogler-lake-web-site -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
