Hi Andy: Naomi Klein had a few interesting points, but Joe Romm certainly brought the discussion to a much deeper level. With regard to geoengineering, Naomi Klein made the same error displayed by many who have not run the numbers. It is not a matter of geoengineering to avoid reducing emissions; it's that we have to reduce emissions as rapidly as we can AND remove CO2 from the atmosphere. Even if we drop emissions to zero overnight, we would barely be able to stabilize CO2 concentration at 350 ppm and avoid a temperature increase of less than 2 degrees by century's end.
Regards, Chuck On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:20 AM, Andrew Revkin wrote: All the points Andrew made below about geo-engineering were made in recent years about adaptation (some called it immoral to even talk of adaptation). The reality, of course, is that the epic, multi-generational path from a fossil-fueled civilization to whatever comes next is implicitly an all-of-the above task. John Holdren has distilled it pretty well with "mitigation, adaptation, suffering" and that still works if you include research on geo-engineering under "mitigation" (in other words, mitigating warming along with emissions). On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Ken Caldeira <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Naomi Klein is wrong. I do not see any substantial subset of people researching geoengineering who see it as a way to avoid doing the hard work of reducing emissions. For most, researching 'geoengineering' is an expression of despair at the fact that others are unwilling to do the hard work of reducing emissions. _______________ Ken Caldeira Carnegie Institution for Science Dept of Global Ecology 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA +1 650 704 7212<tel:%2B1%20650%20704%207212> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab @kencaldeira On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Poster's note : short extract below discussing geoengineering. Full interview is very good. It basically describes why I left the green movement - they're all out of ideas and they have no solutions left. I don't agree with her conclusions, however - especially on geoengineering. http://www.salon.com/2013/09/05/naomi_klein_big_green_groups_are_crippling_the_environmental_movement_partner/ You were talking about the Clean Development Mechanism as a sort of disaster capitalism. Isn’t geoengineering the ultimate disaster capitalism? I certainly think it’s the ultimate expression of a desire to avoid doing the hard work of reducing emissions, and I think that’s the appeal of it. I think we will see this trajectory the more and more climate change becomes impossible to deny. A lot of people will skip right to geoengineering. The appeal of geoengineering is that it doesn’t threaten our worldview. It leaves us in a dominant position. It says that there is an escape hatch. So all the stories that got us to this point, that flatter ourselves for our power, will just be scaled up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:geoengineering%[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:geoengineering%[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- _ ANDREW C. REVKIN Dot Earth blogger, The New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/dotearth Senior Fellow, Pace Acad. for Applied Env. Studies Cell: 914-441-5556 Fax: 914-989-8009 Twitter: @revkin Skype: Andrew.Revkin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
