Brian and list:

   See inserts below.  Re the first sentence below on Dr. Shiva,  see a message 
I just sent.  I go further than you about “rhetorically overstated”.  I agree 
with others that she is dangerous - because she is anti-science, much worse 
than no science.

   more below.

On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Brian Cartwright <[email protected]> 
wrote:

> Just a few comments:
> 
> Ron - I think Vandana Shiva's cautions about biochar and other geoengineering 
> ideas ("role ... should be zero") may be rhetorically overstated. But I just 
> want to look at biochar to the extent that it can be called geoengineering. 
> If I could characterize your views, you generally look to extrapolate the 
> role of biochar to sequester the maximum atmospheric CO2. That would be 
> large-scale geoengineering, I think we would agree. And because there could 
> be substantial benefits to soil and energy supply, you argue that this is a 
> superior tool to other CDR proposals.
    [RWL1:  Yes on last sentence.  But I favor Dr. Ken Caldera’s arguments on 
this list that geoengineering should be redefined to exclude biochar - because 
biochar and most CDR approaches are NOT large-scale.   I made the point a few 
posts ago that biochar experiments are happening worldwide at a rate that we 
can’t keep up with.  I see zero hazard to anyone with that happening.  Re last 
sentence - I hope there are other CDR approaches that are as good.  I am not 
trying to keep up with these others, except through this list.  The more 
approaches, the better.
> 
> Just removing CO2 from the atmosphere won't cool the planet quickly enough, 
> because of numerous sinks and feedbacks.
     [RWL2:  Disagree.   I know of no peer-reviewed paper making this 
“irreversibility”  claim in a manner I can believe.  If we put our mind to it, 
we can be back at 350 ppm in 50 years.   There are others saying this.   Those 
saying there is a much lower maximum are also saying they are making 
conservative assumptions.]
> I advocate soil carbon sequestration for other primary benefits: reversing 
> aridification of enormous areas of land that are increasingly radiating heat 
> because of losing vegetative cover, reversing the damages done by industrial 
> agriculture which have depleted carbon with the plow and with chemical inputs 
> killing off microbes and other soil organisms, and restoring hydrology that 
> comes from forests providing the biological seeds for clouds, and from 
> supporting microclimates to hold moisture in the soil.
    [RWL3:  All true.  But there is zero conflict I know about with any of 
these benefits and biochar (the main CDR approach falling under “soil carbon 
sequestration”)
> These benefits use water vapor effects that cool much more effectively than 
> CO2 reduction.
    [RWL4:   I have seen no peer-reviewed paper showing this.  Many point out 
that water vapor is a more effective GHG than CO2.   I do think that latent 
heat transfer has some potential - but believe that in no way conflicts with 
biochar.]
> 
> And yes, CO2 being sequestered is also urgent. Biochar obviously does that. 
> But if you think that biochar has to be given the whole job, the logistical 
> side-effects could be disastrous.
     [RWL5:  I have seen no “logistical side-effects" reported that I take 
seriously.    I am NOT arguing that biochar “be given the whole job”.  I just 
have not seen any other with biochar’s potential.  Clearly we can and must get 
a wedge or more of afforestation - but if managed, we can get more CDR by 
coupling afforestation with biochar.  Most analysts also ignore the out year 
potential of greater NPP and soil carbon - which I think (can’t prove yet) can 
double the CDR of what goes directly into the ground.  To repeat,  one Gt C of 
direct biochar application has a long term impact of any other CDR approach 
sequestering 2 wedges.  I know of no other CDR approach that can make that 
claim.
> I'd rather see us use biochar in concentrated doses (after all, it's still 
> very expensive) as a catalyst and stimulant to effective prime soil carbon. 
> quickly boosting mychorrizal fungi and microbial communities, and regreening 
> landscapes. The soil carbon is the priority, and biochar is an invaluable 
> tool for the purpose.
    [RWL6:  I don’t see us in disagreement.  Obviously you will use the minimum 
amount possible (to maximize the NPP).   Many already are doing this with char 
placed only near the roots - not everywhere in a field.
> 
> We agree on a lot of things about biochar. I just think you're putting the 
> cart before the horse.
   [RWL7:   Sorry,  I am not understanding this.   What is the cart and what is 
the horse?   If this means I am proposing too aggressive an introduction 
schedule,  I admit to thinking we are going too slowly.  Almost no government 
funds are now being employed - at least in the USA.  I think my schedule is 
about the same as proposed by Dr.  James Hansen.   Any biochar user getting 
large-scale bad results deserves what they get - prior testing is quick, cheap 
and easy.  We have thousands of years of experience in many places besides the 
terra preta experience in the Amazon.  To my knowledge - all positive.
  Ron]
> 
> Brian
> 
> <snip> 

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