Russell

I am in complete agreement with you and can fit your foam-making plant in the present design of vessel. It might be useful to string a foam hose between two vessels some distance apart so as to cover a wide area.

Stephen

Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design. School of Engineering, University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3DW, Scotland [email protected], Tel +44 (0)131 650 5704, Cell 07795 203 195, WWW.homepages.ed.ac.uk/shs, YouTube Jamie Taylor Power for Change
On 23/04/2017 23:39, Russell Seitz wrote:
Dear Stephen:

I hasten to point out that your analysis of cloud cooling of 23km3 from the top down applies equally to microbubble cooling SRM from the bottom up.

Last year, after meeting with UNEP coral conservtionist Tom Goreau I visiited several reef damage redmediation sites in the Grenadines, where though emphasis has been on replanting , widespread bleaching has also led to interest in sea surface cooling.

As bothh ocean and lake models suggest the fresh water techniques we are developing to curb fresh water reservoir evaporation can realitstically achieve coolings of 5 K or more, and the energy cost per hectare is reckoned to be a kilowatt or less, a continouous multimegawatt reduction in solar load may be an afforable alterative to your admittedly better developed cloud nucleation work.

It shoud be noted that many South China Sea reefs face thermal stresses approaching those of the GBR as well - in both cases ecologists should explore the addvantages and hazards of brightening the water instead of dimming the sun.

Best regards

Russsell Seitz
Senior Fellow
The Climate Institute

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 6:18:33 AM UTC-4, Stephen Salter wrote:

    Hi All

    Ken says there might not be enough clouds to save the barrier reef.

    Below should be a map from Kari Alterskjaer from
    doi:10.5194/acp-12-2795-2012 showing how good different regions
    are through the seasons.

    The very best red ones of California, Peru and Namibia score 0.12
    but the much larger white areas are 0.085 show the best are only
    40% better.

    Further more the life time of nuclei under clear skies will be
    longer so a high cloud fraction is less important.  We should not
    let the best become  the enemy of the quite good.



    I got some data about flow rates into the  Barrier Reef region
    from a PhD thesis by Severine Choukroun from

    https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/24024/
    <https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/24024/>

The key number is 23 km3 per day. If anyone can give me other numbers please do. If following Kohler you believe that the right
    size of mono-disperse spray will give a high nucleation fraction
    and that some other assumptions are reasonable then the
    calculations below will tell you how many spray vessels would be
    needed to cool the Barrier Reef.

    However another paper from Norway

    DOI:10.1029/2010JD014015

    suggests that my mono-disperse spray assumption does matter
    because spray with the Aitken mode size distribution works in the
    wrong direction.

    Stephen


    Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design. School of Engineering,
    University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3DW,
    Scotland [email protected] <javascript:>, Tel +44 (0)131 650 5704,
    Cell 07795 203 195, WWW.homepages.ed.ac.uk/shs
    <http://WWW.homepages.ed.ac.uk/shs>, YouTube Jamie Taylor Power
    for Change
    On 22/04/2017 08:31, Andrew Lockley wrote:

    
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604211/scientists-consider-brighter-clouds-to-preserve-the-great-barrier-reef/
    
<https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604211/scientists-consider-brighter-clouds-to-preserve-the-great-barrier-reef/>


  # A scientist surveys bleaching damage on the Great Barrier Reef.
  # TANE SINCLAIR-TAYLOR | ARC CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE CORAL REEF STUDIES


          Sustainable Energy
          <https://www.technologyreview.com/topic/sustainable-energy/>


      Scientists Consider Brighter Clouds to Preserve the Great
      Barrier Reef


        As bleaching devastates the critical ecosystem for a second
        year in a row, marine scientists are getting desperate.

      * by James Temple
        <https://www.technologyreview.com/profile/james-temple/>
     *
      * April 20, 2017

    Agroup of Australian marine scientists believe that altering
    clouds might offer one of the best hopes for saving the Great
    Barrier Reef.

    For the last six months, researchers at the Sydney Institute of
    Marine Science and the University of Sydney School of Geosciences
    have been meeting regularly to explore the possibility of making
    low-lying clouds off the northeastern coast of Australia more
    reflective in order to cool the waters surrounding the world’s
    biggest coral reef system.

    During the last two years, the Great Barrier Reef has been
    devastated by wide-scale bleaching, which occurs as warm ocean
    waters cause corals to discharge the algae that live in symbiosis
    with them. Last year, as El Niño events cranked up ocean
    temperatures, at least 20 percent of the reef died and more than
    90 percent of it was damaged.

    The Australian researchers took a hard look at a number
    
<https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/07/plan-cold-water-barrier-reef-stop-bleaching>
 of
    potential ways
    
<http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/04/18/a-radical-attempt-to-save-the-reefs-and-forests>
 to
    preserve the reefs. But at this point, making clouds more
    reflective looks like the most feasible way to protect an
    ecosystem that stretches across more than 130,000 square miles,
    says Daniel Harrison, a postdoctoral research associate with the
    Ocean Technology Group at the University of Sydney. “Cloud
    brightening is the only thing we’ve identified that’s scalable,
    sensible, and relatively environmentally benign,” he says.

    Bleached corals on the Great Barrier Reef.
    ED ROBERTS/TETHYS IMAGES | ARC CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE CORAL REEF
    STUDIES

    They’re one of several research groups that have started to
    explore whether cloud brightening, generally discussed as a
    potential tool to alter the climate as a whole, could be applied
    in more targeted ways. All the scientists involved stress that
    the research is in its infancy. No one has tested a system for
    cloud brightening at all, much less in geographically focused
    applications.

    British scientist John Latham first proposed the idea as a
    potential way of controlling global warming
    <http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v347/n6291/abs/347339b0.html> in
    /Nature/ nearly 30 years ago. The theory is that fleets of ships
    could spray tiny salt particles, generated from sea water, toward
    the low-lying marine clouds that hug the coasts of several
    continents. That would provide the nuclei needed to induce
    additional droplet formation, expanding the total surface area of
    the clouds. The resulting dense, white clouds should reflect more
    heat back into space. A 2012 study led by Latham at the
    University of Manchester found that the approach could offset the
    heating that would result if carbon dioxide doubled in
    <http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/370/1974/4217> the
    atmosphere.

    The Marine Cloud Brightening Project, a collaboration between a
    group of Silicon Valley researchers
    
<http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Looking-to-sky-to-fight-climate-change-4170475.php>
 and
    University of Washington climate scientists, has done the most
    advanced work on the idea to date. The team in Sunnyvale,
    California, has spent the last seven years developing a nozzle
    that they believe can spray salt particles of just the right size
    and quantity to alter the clouds. They’re attempting to raise
    several million dollars to build full-scale sprayers, in hopes of
    eventually conducting small-scale field trials at some flat point
    along the Pacific coastline—ideally a place with onshore winds,
    low-lying clouds, and open-minded neighbors.

    The Marine Cloud Brightening Project's nozzle sprays a fine mist
    of tiny salt particles.
    JAMES TEMPLE

    They’re among a handful of researchers looking to conduct limited
    outdoor experiments to explore the feasibility and risks of such
    approaches (see “The Growing Case for Geoengineering
    
<https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604081/the-growing-case-for-geoengineering/?set=604205>”).
    But while the prospect of using geoengineering to ease global
    warming on a large scale poses intractable governance issues,
    using the technology to address a more localized problem could be
    more feasible, at least politically.

    Coral reefs are crucial parts of the ocean ecosystem, providing
    hunting grounds and homes for thousands of species. They also
    generate nearly $200 billion in economic value annually, through
    tourism, fisheries, and other activity, according to one study
    <https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/d-wac101509.php>.
    Reefs, however, have been hard hit worldwide by ocean
    acidification, pollution, overfishing, and other environmental
    stresses. The Great Barrier Reef has shrunk dramatically during
    the last three decades
    <http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-19800253>.

    That makes it increasingly urgent to seriously explore ways of
    preserving the reefs, even “fairly out-there, grand schemes,”
    Harrison says. Next month, he plans to start computer climate
    modeling to explore
    <http://myerfoundation.org.au/news/2017-myer-innovation-fellows-announced/> 
whether
    cloud brightening could make a big enough temperature difference
    to help. The group plans to collaborate on the research with the
    Marine Cloud Brightening Project team.


            Should scientists try to save the Great Barrier Reef by
            brightening the clouds?

        Tell us what you think.
        
<https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604211/scientists-consider-brighter-clouds-to-preserve-the-great-barrier-reef/#comments>

    Coral reefs aren’t the only ecosystem that some scientists
    believe might need help from geoengineering. Researchers at the
    University of California, the Carnegie Institution, Stanford
    University, and Oregon State University have begun a larger
    project <http://www.fogsci.com/> exploring, among other things,
    how climate change is affecting or will affect the last remaining
    stands of coast redwoods.

    They're the world's tallest trees, and rely on coastal fog for
    around half of their moisture. But Northern California fog levels
    have dropped more than 30 percent
    <http://www.pnas.org/content/107/10/4533.full> since the early
    20th century, a decline linked to urbanization and climate
    change. The impact has been limited to date, but fear is growing
    that these old-growth stands could be wiped
    out if the trends accelerate.

    Elliott Campbell, an associate professor of environmental
    engineering at UC Merced, says the group has held early talks
    with the Marine Cloud Brightening Project about whether the
    technique could generate more low-lying clouds to help feed
    moisture to the redwoods. “If we could artificially produce fog
    on summer mornings, and that could help us buy the redwoods more
    time as we shift to a less carbon-intensive economy, that’s
    potentially a good thing,” Campbell says.

    Aerial view of a bleached portion of the Great Barrier Reef.
    ARC CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE CORAL REEF STUDIES

    Ken Caldeira
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/s/543916/stop-emissions/>, a
    prominent climate scientist at the Carnegie Institution who has
    modeled the potential of cloud brightening, says the idea of
    localized geoengineering is worth exploring. But he’s not
    convinced that cloud brightening could produce a substantial
    climate effect at such a limited level. Below a certain
    geographic footprint, probably around 10,000 square miles, it
    might be difficult to produce a big enough change in cloud
    density to add up to much of a difference, he says. He’s
    specifically skeptical that it would work at the Great Barrier Reef.

    “I just don’t think there are enough clouds of the right type
    there that would be susceptible to marine cloud brightening,” he
    says.

    The University of Sydney’s Harrison is aware of the concerns
    Caldeira raises and intends to look at these issues closely in
    his feasibility research. But at a first pass, he believes there
    could be sufficient marine clouds to help preserve the Great
    Barrier Reef.

    In any case, he hopes so, because nothing else looks particularly
    promising.

    Tech Obsessive?
    Become an Insider to get the story behind the story — and before
    anyone else.

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<https://ssl.drgnetwork.com/ecom/MTR/app/live/subscriptions?org=MTR&publ=TR&key_code=PRSPRIS&type=S>

     *


     *
     *

     *
     *

     *
     *

     *


          Tagged

    Ken Caldeira
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/ken-caldeira/>,geoengineering
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/geoengineering/>, clouds
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/clouds/>,Great Barrier Reef
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/great-barrier-reef/>, Daniel
    Harrison <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/daniel-harrison/>,
    Australia <https://www.technologyreview.com/g/australia/>

    James Temple

    James Temple
    <https://www.technologyreview.com/profile/james-temple/>Senior
    Editor, Energy

    I am the senior editor for energy at /MIT Technology Review/. I’m
    focused on renewable energy and the use of technology to combat
    climate change. Previously, I was a senior director at the
    /Verge/, deputy managing editor at /Recode/, and columnist at the
    /San Francisco Chronicle/. When I’m not writing about energy and
    climate change, I’m often hiking with my dog or shooting video of
    California landscapes.

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