On Monday 18 May 2009 09:13:03 Fredrik Alströmer wrote:

> > I realize that the current behaviour has the reason, but also I
> > try find out the way, so users with other workflow could benefit.
> It'll probably be very hard to solve for everyone, I guess solving
> for 'most people' (don't try to get a definition out of me on that
> one..) ;) is the best we can do. Note that I'm not saying I'm
> necessarily one of that group.

As I wrote before if we cannot find common solution (sometimes it is 
not possible) option is the way. 

> >> I frequently find
> >> myself zooming out briefly to see how it works in context, just
> >> to zoom back in again a split-second later (very rarely zooming
> >> far enough to have the image become smaller than the window).
> >
> > This is odd, or I don't understand you -- that's because I do
> > what you do, and I always have to zoom out to such degree that
> > the entire image fits in the window. In other words I have to do
> > 10 zoom outs instead of just 1. And it is not helpful for me.
> I must say, now I don't understand what you're saying, so chances
> are there's been a misunderstanding here.. :) All I'm trying to say
> is that I zoom out and back in, perhaps a level or two to see the
> context, 

and here I am saying that gimp does not serve this purpose.

> and without moving the mouse I zoom right back in again 
> and get exactly the same view.

And here it does :-)

Maybe examples:

I would like to get the context of the black circle in the top. What 
is the context of it? I place mouse cursor over it and perform zoom 
out _twice_.


Still I don't see too much, so 2 x zoom out...


Still no good, 2 x zoom out again...


Ok, finally I have clue it is Kenora. But for comparison look how much 
data I get (bottom of the screen) that is no related at all.

> > For me it slows me down, because after 10 zoom outs, I have to
> > perform 9 zoom ins, to get back to the level I wanted.
> Ok, so now you've lost me. You're asking for kind of a 'bookmarked
> view', so you don't have to zoom in again but rather 'undo' your
> zoom outs?

Actually no, but it is a good idea if the zoom&scroll would be 
implemented. This would be the tool for those interested in getting 
back _exactly_ where they started.

> > I just tried it, and it does not that (Firefox) -- it zooms the
> > center of the image. I pointed out at Miami which was in the
> > bottom right corner of the image, zoom in, Miami was gone.
> I just tried the same thing, and I ended up in Opa-Locka, Miami...
> Seriously though, how do you zoom in? (The behavior you're
> describing is consistent with clicking the + and - buttons?
> Keyboard perhaps?) If you're not using the scroll-wheel, than go
> ahead and take it for a spin.

I don't use scroll wheel, only keyboard, examples:


mouse cursor is at the red dot, I zoom in and...


... I cannot see the area I was pointing out, so now I have to scroll.

> Adding options is rarely the answer. It has a tendency to blow an
> application to pieces. See this here for example (ok, perhaps a bit
> exaggerated, but still funny, and on a meta-level actually rather
> accurate)
> http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/03/05/simplicity/

This example is funny of course, but it is about UI, not options.

Go to this page:

Simple interface, right? But go options:

Not that simple :-)) I think that banning options and trying to fit 
people into one UI is one extreme, the second putting option for each 
UI without thinking if they share the same parts is another.

By definition those two UIs:
* scroll & zoom
* stay & zoom

are opposites, so they cannot be combined. We can think if we could 
easily add aims to achieve the other within one. It is possible 
for "scroll & zoom" with adding "undo zoom" or "bookmark zoom". 
For "stay & zoom" it could be "center this point".

But both look artificial. I don't see that such option is an overkill 
but it allow _all_ users to customize gimp to _their_ needs.

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