---- Original Message ----- From: "Luis Gutierrez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: gmane.science.general.global-change Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:39 PM Subject: [Global Change: 513] Re: Global Impacts of Religious Violence
>[quote lg] The first 20 countries have the lowest HDI scores and include ... -- 16 countries with dominant *very strong* patriarchal religion -- 4 countries with religious diversity and no dominant religion The last 20 countries have the highest HDI scores and include ... -- 3 countries with dominant *strong* patriarchal religion -- 17 countries with religious diversity and no dominant religion >[end lg] I see that is how you interpret the graph - what is missing for me is a *measure* of patriarchy by which you might illustrate the relationship, in much the way that I have illustrated the relationship between religion and fertility by producing data compiled with religion on one axis and fertility on the other. After much discussion, suffice to say you've convinced me that we could probably agree which countries are dominated by patriarchal religions after sifting through news accounts to count the number of infidel beheadings, deaths by stoning, burkas, female clergy, etc. So we agree there is an association with level of socioeconomic development and the prevalence (or dominance or strength) of patriarchal religion. But, still too soon to conclude there is a causal relationship. >[quote lg] you don't obey your husband you are going to hell" ... etc. This sort of moral/religious violence has a profound effect (for example, via the "collective unconscious") in family life and all other dimensions of social life. >[end lg] No doubt fear and terror are effective means of behavioral control. So are guilt and shame, but their link to violence is less clear; they seem more strongly related to social approval or disapproval. >[quote lg] 800 and 200 BCE). I am simply searching for other kinds of objective evidence that would seem to support (or contradict) the hypothesis. It is a very critical issue for humanity and, if Girard is right, religion is a factor that should be included in any analysis of global change. Sorry, but I cannot resist the temptation to suggest that you may want to consider sections 1 and 4 of the August issue of my newsletter ... http://www.pelican-consulting.com/solisustv02n08.html >[end lg] I appreciate and applaud your search for evidence - indeed that is what holds my interest here. I hope you don't mind my "oppositional" rhetoric, it is simply an exercise in skepticism such that we may learn something from explanations when they are called for. One bit of logic calls for explanation: how may a constant explain change? Sections 1 and 4 speak of "ubiquitous" violence - everywhere, and for a very long time. If there has been a regime of ubiquitous patriarchal violence for something like 2000 years, how can that explain the massive global changes of the past 200 years, measurable by such indicators as the size of the human population, atmospheric CO2 concentration, or global average surface temperature? I think we may have to seek material explanations (the industrial revolution) and point to "patriarchally dominant" religion as a drag on industrial development, rather than a driving force of change. Technical change leading, cultural change lagging, or in more anthropological terms: material culture changing more rapidly than immaterial culture. Seems there is a story to be told of the patriarchal mind set replaced by the "western liberal" mind set, accompanied as it has been by "the protestant ethic and the spirit of capitalism", to coin a phase. Have you encountered Alex Inkeles' "psychological modernity" theory of development? Regards, -dl --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Global Change ("globalchange") newsgroup. Global Change is a public, moderated venue for discussion of science, technology, economics and policy dimensions of global environmental change. Posts will be admitted to the list if and only if any moderator finds the submission to be constructive and/or interesting, on topic, and not gratuitously rude. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/globalchange -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
