On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote:
> It's very straight-forward, and as long as you know a little about your
> system (at least the module you use for your ethernet device), Debian will
> install no problem.
Hmmm. What about the 99.9% of the population who does not know what module
you use for your ethernet device? :-)
> What do you mean they have to play catch up? Their installer works, so
> what do they need to catch up?
To pick a random example ;-), Red Hat's installer:
- Supports GUI installs. This can be a big deal. There is a large segment of
the user population who has never used a character-cell-based UI.
- Offers some predefined "Installation Types" which will basically create a
turn-key system with the press of a button. (Okay, I'm embellishing things a
little, but not that much...)
- Offers three levels of package selection granularity (installation types,
package groups, and individual packages).
- Offers a friendly UI for partitioning.
- Auto-detects *a lot* of hardware, so you have to do *nothing*. It just
works. Automatically. This is a Big Win in my book.
- Supports automation via Kickstart scripts.
I think Derek called this one. I can do all this stuff myself, but given
the choice between easy and hard, I'll pick easy any day.
> I use alternative paths all the time, especially when I setup my
> partitions. On some filesystems I make, I want the block size to be
> bigger/smaller, and its nice to select the alternative to formatting a
> linux partition, which is just mounting it.
That's not a whole path, that's just an option. Even Red Hat does that
much. :-)
What I meant by "multiple paths" was an installer that had multiple starting
points and/or ending points. Most installers start from one point and end up
at another. You can skip steps in-between, move back and forth, and even
fast-forward to the end, but it is still a single line. Multiple paths means
you get to choose your goal, and the installer branches from there.
> Well dpkg basically has these states....
I understand the gist of it. I just don't like it. :-) Like Jeff Smith
keeps saying, a lot of this is just personal choice.
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote:
> Granted thats not Red Hats fault at all, but it just makes more sense that
> if you start off using a system like Slackware, you HAVE to learn
> everything about the system and Linux, because theres nothing to hold your
> hand.
This sounds like a variation on the old joke, "If it was hard to write, it
should be hard to understand".
Some people in the Debian community (I don't necessarily mean anyone here)
seem to identify with that joke a bit more than is healthy. There was an
infamous posting to one of the Debian mailing lists some time ago that said
Debian *should* be hard to use, because it forces people to be smarter, or
some such thing.
Making the learning curve steep in an attempt to increase user understanding
is a Very Bad Thing. It pisses people off and creates an artificial barrier to
entry -- which induces a negative feedback loop that will kill you eventually.
More importantly, *not everyone wants to know*. The vast majority of people
see computers as tools, a means to an end. They don't want to know how it
works. They're not hackers. This is the way it should be. Do you know every
detail about every piece of equipment (e.g., car, refrigerator, etc.) you use?
Even if everyone did want to know, *not everyone can learn that way*.
Different people have different learning styles. Declaring by fiat that we
should throw everyone in and hope they float is not a good policy.
End of rant. (Again, I'm not targeting this at anyone here; I'm commenting
on a phenomenon I've observed elsewhere.)
> Jeez, how are you people installing your Debian system?? Remember...
> install ONLY the base system, then apt-get ONLY what you need ...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Disk space is cheaper than time.
:-) In other words, it is often easier to install everything all at once, so
it will be available, than install things one at a time as people discover
they need them.
> (and be sure to run dselect to resolve some depends every so often).
What happened to APT handling all that for you? ;-)
--
Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Net Technologies, Inc. <http://www.ntisys.com>
Voice: (800)905-3049 x18 Fax: (978)499-7839
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