Hi Miguel, Firstly, I think it is quite obvious that one will necessarily hold a passport of the country he/she is a citizen of. Unless, of course, you know people who hold passports of countries they are not citizens of???? Pardon me; I could not understand what you meant. Rui clearly stated he is a Portuguese citizen from birth. So, obviously he holds a Portuguese passport (or am I missing something here?) Maybe you wish to refer to those who claim they are Indian citizens and hold other passports for convenience and opportunism? Perhaps? I know there are thousands of those! Also, when referring to your cousin, why did you mention "His parents were Portuguese nationals of Goan birth/descent"? Weren't your parents in the same situation? And don't you think that is the case for the very large majority of members in this forum? The word that comes to my mind is redundancy. And there is a lot of it in your post. Secondly, I cannot understand why you brought Mocambique into this thread. Unless, of course, you wanted to introduce your most important relatives who were there too serving the first president of that Republic? Fair enough. OK. I am now aware of that.
Thirdly, no points given for your sarcasm. Rui's posts in this forum have been responses to false statements and non-factual based opinions. It all started with you issuing false statements (at least twice and both with extreme confidence) that Fundacao Oriente runs casinos in Macau, to which Rui thought it deserved correction to re-establish the truth. Of course, many other members of this forum also knew the truth, but then, it probably did not serve their agenda to correct false statements of this kind. No. It is far better and more important to criticize the way the Portuguese restore their monuments and keep the Portuguese bashing very much alive. Fourthly, I do not think Rui was giving his advice to anyone. He was merely expressing his opinions. As you must have noted, all of Rui's posts were responses to other posts (you yourself referred to them as "quite well balanced and almost fair" opinions). As I recall, it wasn't Rui who started comparing Goa/India with Portugal. I, myself, do not see much sense in that comparison. But it all started when he merely replied to observations like Goa achieved democracy at least 10 years before Portugal. I am still to be convinced what kind of democracy that was. - How many years after 1961 was statehood achieved and Konkani language recognized? - When did Goans vote/decide for integration/merger with India? - When was the instrument of accession and/or instrument of merger proposed and signed? - And what kind of liberation is this when an alien government takes over a territory by force, imposes their law and does not even care for the population's opinion? (ever!). Very good democracy indeed. And of course, almost the same happened in all the other princely states just after 1947. But at least in those states, the respective maharaja's were "democratically" forced (or shall I say persuaded) to sign the instruments of accession and merger (with perhaps the exception of Kashmir who never signed the instrument of merger). In Goa, we were not even given the choice (before or after 1961). It would have been nice to have been given the choice after 1961. I would have expected at least that from the so called largest democracy of the world. And please, do not try to convince me we were all Indians in Goa anyway and that India existed as a country for a million years so Goa should have been also given back to India. We were all Indians just like the Pakistanis were all Indians! So, why don't we call them Indians too? As for the country we now call the Republic of India, it is nothing else but a post-British period invention with 56 years now. And Goa, was never before a part of it! Lastly, Miguel, in future, please talk for yourself. I cannot remember anyone asking you to represent all of us Goans in this forum. You certainly do not represent me. I respect your opinion but we are all different individuals and certainly have different ideas. Like Rui, I am here to discuss my opinions, not to advice anyone. BTW, will I ever have the pleasure of knowing your surname? Is it Braganca? Or are you too ashamed of your Portuguese surname to mention it? No cheers today! Paulo Colaco Dias -----Original Message----- From: Miguel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Netters, >From the text of the postings from Rui two things are clear: 1.He believes he is Portuguese( Absolutely nothing wrong in that: He was born a Portuguese national in Mocambique.He lives as a Portuguese national, citizen ,and most probably[he has not stated this in any of his postings that I have read],is a Portuguese passport holder.There is no dichotomy in his thinking.) 2.He does not accept the independence of Mocambique as having any effect on him by virtue of having been born in that country or growing up there. It is not his native land,he was just born there.[ His response to the independence is the third option. My uncle came back to Goa after 1975.His first cousin,Aquino Braganca, stayed back as the Advisor to the first President of Mocambique,Samora Machel,and died with him in a plane crash. 'Gosto e relative': Tastes differ!] His parents were Portuguese nationals of Goan birth/descent.He is Portuguese. Having said that,I do not understand why he waxes eloquent on Goa (pre- and post- liberation/invasion of 1961) What is Goa to him: a topic for discussion on the Goanet?Like Mocambique or Timor is to many Goans?His interest in Goa and Goans is as academic as my interest in Pangea and the primates or the stne age man. Or is there some emotional bonding with Goa.Saudades,perhaps,lying hidden below his consciousness. Eating chocolates is reported to help overcome bouts of such feelings.[ in vivo research was done on jilted lovers or those prone to unrequited romance] Bernado does not need to eat chocolates for ,as one psycho-analyst friend once said to me,"The love of oneself is the beginning of a life-long romance."That should sustain him till the grave. Lastly,if Goans have been able to handle their birth rate,mortality rates,life expectancy,per capita income,politicians ,elections and social indicators to be the best state in India and live just one year less that our brethren in Portugal,do we really need advice from good intentioned,well-meaning ,well educated and widely travelled Portuguese citizens??? If we need, we will ask. We even have the email IDs of possible consultants in this context. Why the unsolicited advice ad nauseam? To his credit,I will say that Rui has kept his postings quite well balanced and almost fair.That I do not agree with his assesment and compulsion to advise us Goans in Goa how to be more Goan [Mais papista du que Papa--More Pope-like than the Pope himself] is another matter. I hope we can wind up this thread on the so-called 'bharati invasion' (the Portuguese have every right to think of it that way) of 1961 and move on to topics of mutual benefit. This benefits no one. There is no question of Rui repatriating to Goa: he is not an ex-patriate from here.He is happily living in his Patria. He should let us live peacefully in our Matria,Amchem Goem amkam zai!! Warm regards to all, Miguel ########################################################################## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##########################################################################
