> All I can suggest you is : take a week or a few days, take the latest > version of the library and see if the lib can help you (for me, it > does, it just saves me a lot of time).
I agree completely. The best thing someone can do is to try it themselves. Remember to make a relatively complex interface so you get an idea of the limitations of the library. If the benefits outweigh the costs, you have your answer. -- Arthur Kalmenson On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:27 AM, Miles T. <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 19 déc, 20:51, Pascal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think his advice are > > meant to be friendly advice and I do think a lot of people agree with > > them. > > I don't. I use Ext GWT (aka gxt, previously MyGWT), which is a full > GWT library (no JSNI, no wrapping JS library), since April (2008) for > an internal application (now 223 classes for the GWT side). > AFAIK, it is the only GWT library (excluding JS wrappers) providing > ALL the following features : > - containers and layouts > - MVC layer > - complete look and feels > - rich set of widgets (including grids, drag and drop...) > - form data binding > - lazy rendering > > Using this lib, I don't have to write any line of HTML/CSS. > > Drawbacks : > Bugs : as the library is young, there are some bugs, but they are > quickly fixed when you post a ticket (and there are almost always > workarounds when you can't wait). > Slower but not slow : In hosted mode, start time will be slower than a > vanilla GWT app, but I don't get any performance issue once the app is > launched > > All I can suggest you is : take a week or a few days, take the latest > version of the library and see if the lib can help you (for me, it > does, it just saves me a lot of time). > > Regards > > Miles T. > > > > > Pascal > > > > On Dec 19, 9:47 am, Rob Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There you go again sounding like a broken record. You really are quite > > > thick headed aren't you? > > > > > If you take pleasure in constantly dissing other libraries, I'll do > > > the same and reply to your every post saying that you are full of it. > > > Deal? > > > > > You might make yourself more useful if you try to answer real > > > questions on the group instead of increasing your post count with > > > cruft. 90% of your posts are really just pointing people to the gwt- > > > ext, ext-gwt forums and dissing these libraries at every single > > > opportunity. > > > > > Rob > > > > > On Dec 19, 9:04 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by > > > > > educating these developers and saving their project? > > > > > > I'm not really assuming any responsibility, I'm just mentioning that > > > > there are draw backs to using these libraries. > > > > > > > What makes you so qualified? > > > > > > I've had to abandon and rewrite a GWT-ext project because of the said > > > > drawbacks. I've talked with many other people who had to rewrite > > > > ExtGWT and GWT-ext projects. > > > > > > > You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why > > > > > not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in > > > > > response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? > > > > > > I don't believe I was insulting anyone. And while I've expressed my > > > > opinion (which many here hold), many people are new and don't know the > > > > downside of using these libraries. > > > > > > > Or the ZK > > > > > guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. > > > > > Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not > > > > > necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give > > > > > them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no > > > > > one asked for it. > > > > > > How am I going overboard? Dave Ford's comment is indicative that > > > > people appreciate hearing what the down sides are. In order for a > > > > developer to make an informed decision, they need to hear all sides > > > > and try it for themselves. > > > > > > > Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned > > > > > and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There > > > > > have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like > > > > > GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to > > > > > the appropriate forum. > > > > > > That's the thing, if I ignore the posts that tell people to use > > > > ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT, and no one bothers to warn them, they > > > > might end up committing substantial resources to these projects and > > > > then have to rewrite them or have them turn out poorly. For example, > > > > see this > > > > posthttp://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit/msg/7e3ad4486d103b94 > > > > where the developer says load times are slow (it's even slow on my new > > > > MacBook Pro). Had the developer used vanilla GWT, I doubt they would > > > > have run into those problems. > > > > > > The biggest problem IMHO is that people use these third party > > > > libraries and think they're using GWT. They find that it's slow and > > > > buggy and attribute it to GWT. Then GWT ends up getting a bad > > > > reputation. People who come to this mailing list need to understand > > > > that ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT have almost nothing to do with GWT > > > > and everything to do with the JS libraries they either wrap or attempt > > > > to mimic. That way, if they decide to use these libraries, they'll > > > > understand that they're using that toolkit, and not GWT. > > > > > > If I see questions about other third party libraries that go > > > > unanswered, I'll point them to the appropriate mailing list (if one > > > > exists). I can't catch and respond to every post. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm tired of arguing this point. If you like and use gwt-ext, > > > > that's up to you. Try not to get so upset when someone points out its > > > > flaws. > > > > -- > > > > Arthur Kalmenson > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Rob Smith <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Arthur, > > > > > So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by > > > > > educating these developers and saving their project? What makes you > > > > > so qualified? You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why > > > > > not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in > > > > > response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? Or the ZK > > > > > guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. > > > > > Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not > > > > > necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give > > > > > them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no > > > > > one asked for it. > > > > > > > Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned > > > > > and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There > > > > > have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like > > > > > GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to > > > > > the appropriate forum. > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > Full disclosure : I am a contributor to gwt-ext by mostly > > > > > participating in their forums. > > > > > > > On Dec 18, 8:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Hi Rob, > > > > > > >> Judging from cloudcity's response, not everyone is aware of the draw > > > > >> backs of these libraries (or, as you put it, my position on them). > > > > >> Ignoring an issue is not going to make it go away. I'm letting people > > > > >> know what the draw backs of using these libraries are, because a lot > > > > >> of people are impressed by the shininess but are unaware of the > > > > >> numerous problems. Anyway, I'm not here to start a flame war, I'm > > > > >> just > > > > >> trying to warn people before they commit all their resources to these > > > > >> libraries. > > > > > > >> -- > > > > >> Arthur Kalmenson > > > > > > >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Rob Smith <[email protected]> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Did anyone ask you opinion on use of third part libs in this > > > > >> > thread. > > > > >> > We know what your position is on using 3rd party libs and you have > > > > >> > made it clear "numerous" times. Repeating the same thing again and > > > > >> > again is just adding noise to this group. Gmail has a wonderful > > > > >> > filter > > > > >> > option and you can set yours to ignore any thread that mentions any > > > > >> > lib that you don't care about :) > > > > > > >> > On Dec 17, 3:34 pm, "Arthur Kalmenson" <[email protected]> > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> >> I'm hoping that a lot of those things will be added to the > > > > >> >> incubator > > > > >> >> in the near future. I've mentioned the request for simpler > > > > >> >> security > > > > >> >> similar to Spring Security's @Secured("ROLE_USER") annotations. > > > > >> >> Data > > > > >> >> binding and validation frameworks are on their way as well, in the > > > > >> >> near future. > > > > > > >> >> I would stay away from ExtGWT or SmartGWT though. > > > > > > >> >> -- > > > > >> >> Arthur Kalmenson > > > > > > >> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM, [email protected] > > > > > > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> > This does bring up a good point and something that is sourly > > > > >> >> > missing. > > > > >> >> > We have cobbled together some very generic type stuff patterned > > > > >> >> > (albeit very low in quality) what we used extensively in > > > > >> >> > Eclipse Rich > > > > >> >> > Client. Maybe the ExtGWT guys or SmartGWT will come up with > > > > >> >> > something. Or if the Eclipse Web Client guys would do GWT.... > > > > >> >> > Or if > > > > >> >> > I could find a spare moment or two, I'd take it on. The whole > > > > >> >> > UI > > > > >> >> > framework beyond "widgets", like editors, views, menus, actions > > > > >> >> > etc. > > > > >> >> > is a sweet spot to be sure that is missing from any of the web > > > > >> >> > frameworks, IMHO. > > > > > > >> >> > On Dec 17, 6:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <[email protected]> > > > > >> >> > wrote: > > > > >> >> >> There are some things in the incubator for status bars and > > > > >> >> >> logging. > > > > >> >> >> The rest you would have to do yourself. > > > > > > >> >> >> -- > > > > >> >> >> Arthur Kalmenson > > > > > > >> >> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Riyaz Mansoor > > > > >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> >> >> > I'm not looking for rich widget sets (Ext, Smart, etc) but > > > > >> >> >> > rather is > > > > >> >> >> > there a GWT framework that provides basics for a RIA. One > > > > >> >> >> > that handles > > > > >> >> >> > the grunt work such as providing; status bar, xml or other > > > > >> >> >> > configurable menu, error logging report, authentication, > > > > >> >> >> > security etc > > > > > > >> >> >> > This maybe reaching for the sky but kinda like what Eclipse > > > > >> >> >> > or > > > > >> >> >> > Netbeans provides as the core platform when developing on > > > > >> >> >> > those > > > > >> >> >> > platforms.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
