Pointing users to the appropriate mailing list is absolutely the right thing to do. Sumit already does a good job with this. It's when you add your own unsolicited and biased spin when pointing to the forum that I take issue with. Like library X has nothing to do with GWT and I think they are really bad. The question was about usage of a certain API and not what you think of the library. Do you get it now?
If you don't like it, don't use it. If you find them slow, don't use it. Slow is a relative term. The gwt-ext demo run fast IMO and users evaluating it can see it for themselves. Do you have any concrete numbers from performance tests when you say they perform poorly? If so please post your test case and specifically point out what is slow and by what margin. Until then making generalized statements like the performance is really poor is just FUD. Rob On Dec 19, 10:51 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > Rob, > > I forgot to mention, are you going to attack GWT developers like Sumit > Chandel that point GWT-ext and ExtGWT questions to those project's > respective mailing lists? > > -- > Arthur Kalmenson > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Arthur Kalmenson > > <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >Rob, > > >> There you go again sounding like a broken record. You really are quite > >> thick headed aren't you? > > > Perhaps instead of attacking _me_, you can point out where I'm wrong? > > However, AFAIK they're still JSNI bindings and still don't work well > > with regular GWT widgets or use the GWT event model. > > >> If you take pleasure in constantly dissing other libraries, I'll do > >> the same and reply to your every post saying that you are full of it. > >> Deal? > > > I'm not "dissing" other libraries. I'm not in grade school. This > > mailing list is here to discuss GWT and surrounding technologies on a > > technical level, not for personal attacks or "dissing" libraries. > > >> You might make yourself more useful if you try to answer real > >> questions on the group instead of increasing your post count with > >> cruft. 90% of your posts are really just pointing people to the gwt- > >> ext, ext-gwt forums and dissing these libraries at every single > >> opportunity. > > > I answer the redirecting questions because they take a few seconds to > > answer and because those posts go days without being answered. I'd > > prefer to at least point them in the right direction rather then leave > > them hanging. If you take a look, I also answer other questions too. A > > lot of them get answered before I get a chance to get to them. > > > Anyway, this is growing tiresome. You need to stop taking this > > personally, it has nothing to do with you. If you believe I'm wrong, > > please point out the inaccuracies, otherwise, don't bother > > responding. > > > -- > > Arthur Kalmenson > > > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 9:47 AM,RobSmith <scubacarri...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> There you go again sounding like a broken record. You really are quite > >> thick headed aren't you? > > >> If you take pleasure in constantly dissing other libraries, I'll do > >> the same and reply to your every post saying that you are full of it. > >> Deal? > > >> You might make yourself more useful if you try to answer real > >> questions on the group instead of increasing your post count with > >> cruft. 90% of your posts are really just pointing people to the gwt- > >> ext, ext-gwt forums and dissing these libraries at every single > >> opportunity. > > >>Rob > > >> On Dec 19, 9:04 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by > >>> > educating these developers and saving their project? > > >>> I'm not really assuming any responsibility, I'm just mentioning that > >>> there are draw backs to using these libraries. > > >>> > What makes you so qualified? > > >>> I've had to abandon and rewrite a GWT-ext project because of the said > >>> drawbacks. I've talked with many other people who had to rewrite > >>> ExtGWT and GWT-ext projects. > > >>> > You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why > >>> > not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in > >>> > response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? > > >>> I don't believe I was insulting anyone. And while I've expressed my > >>> opinion (which many here hold), many people are new and don't know the > >>> downside of using these libraries. > > >>> > Or the ZK > >>> > guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. > >>> > Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not > >>> > necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give > >>> > them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no > >>> > one asked for it. > > >>> How am I going overboard? Dave Ford's comment is indicative that > >>> people appreciate hearing what the down sides are. In order for a > >>> developer to make an informed decision, they need to hear all sides > >>> and try it for themselves. > > >>> > Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned > >>> > and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There > >>> > have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like > >>> > GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to > >>> > the appropriate forum. > > >>> That's the thing, if I ignore the posts that tell people to use > >>> ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT, and no one bothers to warn them, they > >>> might end up committing substantial resources to these projects and > >>> then have to rewrite them or have them turn out poorly. For example, > >>> see this > >>> posthttp://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit/msg/7e3ad4486d103b94 > >>> where the developer says load times are slow (it's even slow on my new > >>> MacBook Pro). Had the developer used vanilla GWT, I doubt they would > >>> have run into those problems. > > >>> The biggest problem IMHO is that people use these third party > >>> libraries and think they're using GWT. They find that it's slow and > >>> buggy and attribute it to GWT. Then GWT ends up getting a bad > >>> reputation. People who come to this mailing list need to understand > >>> that ExtGWT, gwt-ext or SmartGWT have almost nothing to do with GWT > >>> and everything to do with the JS libraries they either wrap or attempt > >>> to mimic. That way, if they decide to use these libraries, they'll > >>> understand that they're using that toolkit, and not GWT. > > >>> If I see questions about other third party libraries that go > >>> unanswered, I'll point them to the appropriate mailing list (if one > >>> exists). I can't catch and respond to every post. > > >>> Anyway, I'm tired of arguing this point. If you like and use gwt-ext, > >>> that's up to you. Try not to get so upset when someone points out its > >>> flaws. > >>> -- > >>> Arthur Kalmenson > > >>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:46 AM,RobSmith <scubacarri...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> > Arthur, > >>> > So you've assumed responsibility for being the GWT saviour by > >>> > educating these developers and saving their project? What makes you > >>> > so qualified? You've expressed your opinion (more than once) so why > >>> > not leave it at that. How would it appear if someone posted in > >>> > response to your every post saying that Arthur is clueless? Or the ZK > >>> > guys saying that GWT sucks in their ads that are all over the place. > >>> > Everyone is entitled to an opinion by going overboard is really not > >>> > necessary. You know what they say about opinions and wanting to give > >>> > them... And you've gone out of your way to voice your opinion even no > >>> > one asked for it. > > >>> > Try to take a deep breath and relax when these libraries are mentioned > >>> > and ignore them instead of assuming the role of GWT gatekeeper. There > >>> > have been stray email questions on various third party libraries like > >>> > GChart and DnD. I don't see you jump in on those threads pointing to > >>> > the appropriate forum. > > >>> >Rob > > >>> > Full disclosure : I am a contributor to gwt-ext by mostly > >>> > participating in their forums. > > >>> > On Dec 18, 8:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >> HiRob, > > >>> >> Judging from cloudcity's response, not everyone is aware of the draw > >>> >> backs of these libraries (or, as you put it, my position on them). > >>> >> Ignoring an issue is not going to make it go away. I'm letting people > >>> >> know what the draw backs of using these libraries are, because a lot > >>> >> of people are impressed by the shininess but are unaware of the > >>> >> numerous problems. Anyway, I'm not here to start a flame war, I'm just > >>> >> trying to warn people before they commit all their resources to these > >>> >> libraries. > > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Arthur Kalmenson > > >>> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:36 PM,RobSmith <scubacarri...@gmail.com> > >>> >> wrote: > > >>> >> > Did anyone ask you opinion on use of third part libs in this thread. > >>> >> > We know what your position is on using 3rd party libs and you have > >>> >> > made it clear "numerous" times. Repeating the same thing again and > >>> >> > again is just adding noise to this group. Gmail has a wonderful > >>> >> > filter > >>> >> > option and you can set yours to ignore any thread that mentions any > >>> >> > lib that you don't care about :) > > >>> >> > On Dec 17, 3:34 pm, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >> >> I'm hoping that a lot of those things will be added to the incubator > >>> >> >> in the near future. I've mentioned the request for simpler security > >>> >> >> similar to Spring Security's @Secured("ROLE_USER") annotations. Data > >>> >> >> binding and validation frameworks are on their way as well, in the > >>> >> >> near future. > > >>> >> >> I would stay away from ExtGWT or SmartGWT though. > > >>> >> >> -- > >>> >> >> Arthur Kalmenson > > >>> >> >> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 9:54 AM, mikedshaf...@gmail.com > > >>> >> >> <mikedshaf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> >> >> > This does bring up a good point and something that is sourly > >>> >> >> > missing. > >>> >> >> > We have cobbled together some very generic type stuff patterned > >>> >> >> > (albeit very low in quality) what we used extensively in Eclipse > >>> >> >> > Rich > >>> >> >> > Client. Maybe the ExtGWT guys or SmartGWT will come up with > >>> >> >> > something. Or if the Eclipse Web Client guys would do GWT.... > >>> >> >> > Or if > >>> >> >> > I could find a spare moment or two, I'd take it on. The whole UI > >>> >> >> > framework beyond "widgets", like editors, views, menus, actions > >>> >> >> > etc. > >>> >> >> > is a sweet spot to be sure that is missing from any of the web > >>> >> >> > frameworks, IMHO. > > >>> >> >> > On Dec 17, 6:54 am, "Arthur Kalmenson" <arthur.k...@gmail.com> > >>> >> >> > wrote: > >>> >> >> >> There are some things in the incubator for status bars and > >>> >> >> >> logging. > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Web Toolkit" group. To post to this group, send email to Google-Web-Toolkit@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Web-Toolkit?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
