On 01/23/2015 07:52 PM, Ravi Pina wrote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 04:34:16PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily <[email protected]> wrote:
Can I ask if you think mailing lists should be private?
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
I don't feel this is a fair comparison and whether a mailing list is
private or not is irrelevant. The communications are implicitly
logged because of the nature how the messages are sent. For IRC logging
is not implied. While there is nothing to prevent someone from
independently logging conversations, the notion that all activity is
logged and archived for public consumption potentially creates a hostile
environment.
I have always privately logged the channels I participate in, and
I'm 100% sure many other people do the same. I don't know why you
think IRC implies no logs.
Email is archived by default privately. When it is publicly archived,
then, yes, it should be clear. Most people (outside open source) don't
associate email with public archives.
So I think this comparison is 100% fair.
Consider the implications if someone were to record a meeting professional
or not. The mere presence of the recording will perhaps cause those less
willing to speak to not speak at all. Perhaps they are self conscious or
just fundamentally prefer to be able to choose when their words are made
public in this way.
This was one of the fears that were cited when the CSSWG was discussing
opening up its technical discussions to the public mailing list, and then
later, when we were discussing opening up our private meeting minutes
(which are pretty thorough--they tend to read as a transcript of the
meeting) to the public archive.
In both cases we went forward and the fears went away--to the point that
representatives of the companies hesitant to go public with the discussions
would complain when people used private channels for their discussion.
And in both cases participation increased.
We occasionally have discussion off the record. But that's ended up being
maybe once every two years, and usually something administrative.
This happens with the press all the time. When things are off the record
people are more willing to talk and be open and honest, but as soon as
there is a recorder and things go on the record statements are calculated
and planned.
The press is full of politics. What and how you represent yourself and
your opinions and beliefs matters. But that's less true here, since our
focus is the project and the work that goes on in it.
As Yvan pointed out as well there is a notion of PII to consider. In
addition to the usernames and messages themselves, logging will track
the IDENT username and hostname and timestamps of when a user signs on
and off the channel.
There's no need to log this information and make it public; in fact it
would be annoying, since it distracts from the conversation.
~fantasai
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