Deepak, Sorry I meant I donot negate your argument on the basis..... Rafeek
On 7/31/07, ahmed rafeek j <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Deepak, > I do negate your arguments on the basis of your locusstandi to speak on > muslims. You descript things well, and many of the points are good > observations, but as I understand it, there are no value free observations > of the society. You are representing a particular 'truth' about Muslims, > which is propagated by the media as well. Have you seen any Gujarathi Hindu > men labelled as terrorist? Has Sanjay Dutt who has been convicted today, > ever been called as a terrorist? The trap in your argument, and the point I > am making is that they have not been labelled as terrorists, because they > are not muslims. So this particular production of terrorist muslim is not > innocent though it appear like that. You should read how the attribute of > homosexuality has been applied on Calicut and the muslim ( There is an > interesting article on this by S. Sanjeev, appeared in a book by DC Books, > called Swavarga Lainhgikatha Keralathil). But even the official statistics > on Men who have Sex with Men, has said that Kottaym was the most happening > area. This branding goes only to certain identities. 'Theft' was attributed > to dalits at a time. So there need not be truth in the claims. And who > created these truths for whom? One should look at it. > Rafeek > > > > On 7/31/07, deepak p <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > yep. esp. the second point.. i wanted to raise it in this forum, but i > > was skeptical if people would start taking it as if i am anti-muslim.. > > police works by using patterns.. if most crimes are being committed by > > people from a single community, the police is very much justified in lookin > > at suspicious people from that community more seriously (and more > > suspiciously) that people from another community.. this is not just a > > community based things.. if people coming from a state X have been causing > > more problems in the form of say, terrorist attacks, then, people from that > > state are liable to be looked upon more suspiciously than people from other > > places.. > > > > police should work (or works) by means of evidence accumulation and by > > learning from past histories.. so, as many attacks have been engineered by > > muslims of late, the police attach a slightly higher suspicion score to a > > suspicious person who belongs to that community as compared to a person who > > belongs to the hindu community.. how else can the police work.. if they dont > > explore suspicious activity, would people here support them after something > > bad happens (by trying to justify their action of not exploring the > > suspicion before the happenin) > > > > for the policeman, he should not be concerned abt what the intelligentia > > think, but rather should try to maintain law and order in the locality where > > he works.. > > > > > > On 7/31/07, Murali K Warier <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > Let me try to summarize the points discussed in this thread (as per my > > > understanding) and give my response to each: > > > The questions to be considered: > > > > > > 1) Are the people and police justified in becoming suspicious of a > > > stranger (that too from another state) settling in a rural surrounding, > > > and > > > getting visitors from abroad? Is it a natural response or an indication > > > of a > > > deeper (cultural?) malaise? > > > 2) Does the 'Muslim' identity of the gentlemen play any part in > > > fuelling suspicion or rumour? > > > 3) Is the police's response justified - in other words, was it an over > > > reaction, was it prompted by anti-Muslim bias and whether the gentleman's > > > constitutional rights were violated? > > > > > > Here are my responses: > > > > > > 1) I think people are justified in becoming suspicious. Mainly because > > > people are by and large suspicious of strangers. There is nothing wrong in > > > that - of course, those at the receiving end may feel quite differently. I > > > personally do not enjoy being looked upon with suspicion, because I know > > > that I am, well, a law abiding citizen who can't think of harming a fly :) > > > But how do strangers know about my noble, Gandhi like character? At any > > > rate, I will not act much differently in similar situations - if > > > anything, I > > > would be even more paranoid. So is it a natural reaction? Absolutely. > > > Does > > > it 'look nice'? No, unambiguously. Should we do anything about it? Not on > > > my > > > corpse - the consequences of criminalizing thought are too frightening > > > even > > > to think of (didn't Communism teach us anything?) > > > > > > 2) It surely did. Is it good? Not really. Is it 'labeling' a whole > > > community? Not at all - in any village, you will see people not only not > > > suspicious of Muslims, but living in perfect harmony with them. The fact > > > is > > > that, some Muslims, misguided and brainwashed no doubt, do indulge in acts > > > of terrorism, and some Muslims justify those acts based on Islamic > > > scriptures and aggressively use the Muslim identity to swell the ranks of > > > the terrorist outfits. The difficulty is that there are no other reliable > > > means to identify these bad apples - they come in all shapes: from > > > billionaire scions to doctors to financial analysts. The only identity > > > perhaps is that most of them are well educated and come from middle to > > > upper > > > middle class background. The so called 'Islamophobia' is in a large > > > measure > > > due to this. Is this prejudice? I am not sure - it looks more like > > > 'post-judice' to me. Now the question: do Tamil Brahmins settling in > > > similar > > > surroundings invite suspicion to a similar degree - not at the moment, but > > > surely they will, if Tamil Brahmins start blowing up commuter trains, > > > justify those acts on some Brahministic scriptures and recruit Brahmin > > > youth > > > using the Tamil Brahmin identity. By the way, Tamilians acting like the > > > gentleman in question in early 90's would have invited much more suspicion > > > then. Do you remember a time when Sikhs were looked upon with suspicion? > > > These are certainly not good things, but part of the natural scheme of > > > things. Again, the only way to suppress people's suspicious minds is to > > > institute thought policing. > > > > > > 3) I think this is the crux of the problem. Getting suspicious of > > > somebody doesn't mean barging into their dwellings at the dead of the > > > night. > > > Feeling hatred for your neighbor doesn't mean you kidnap his son. But the > > > police's behavior is symptomatic of a larger problem with law enforcement. > > > If you become a suspect in some crime, the police's behavior to you would > > > be > > > very similar - that is, this problem - that of crude and illegal methods > > > of > > > investigation - is not limited to inquiries about possible terrorist > > > activities. There is a lot to write about police reforms. There are any > > > number of non-intrusive methods of investigation that could have been > > > employed. That they didn't do so, is not indicative of any bias, but of > > > incompetence, hegemony of authority and all that is wrong with our > > > colonial > > > style of policing. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Murali. > > > > > > On 7/31/07, Ranjit Ranjit <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. > > > - Joseph Stalin > > > > > > To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. > > > These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a > > > revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing > > > machine motivated by pure hate. We must create the pedagogy > > > of the paredon (The Wall)! > > > - Che Guevara > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ greenyouth mailinglist is the activist support mailinglist for kerala To post to this group, send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
